Thoughts on Diesel engined cars being banned very soon.

[Bellow]

Yeah the move from 2T to 4T was a step change.

Grudgingly - given I adore 2T simplicity - I have to agree!

On urban traffic, I wonder how much of that could effectively disappear through more people working from home instead of daily commutes to office blocks. That could be a significant takeaway from the current lockdown situation.

That - and the elimination of all those stupid little trips 'just to get out of the office/workshop for ten minutes'.
Doing a lot of driving at one point, my conclusion was that it only pays race drivers to drive. For the rest of us it is as unproductive as unproductive gets.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Keeping warm is a basic human need. My woodburner stays ON.

Until 'they' ban them outright. There was a big push for this to happen recently, but bigger issues have since raised their 19 heads.

 

[SW18]

Grudgingly - given I adore 2T simplicity - I have to agree!

I remember a Tomorrow’s World episode in the early 90’s featuring a prototype Ford Fiesta with a 2-stroke engine ‘ready for a 2-stroke revolution’. The presenters pointed out the amazing simplicity of the design and anticipated efficiencies. For some reason the idea didn’t really catch on...

 

[m80]

I remember a Tomorrow’s World episode in the early 90’s featuring a prototype Ford Fiesta with a 2-stroke engine ‘ready for a 2-stroke revolution’. The presenters pointed out the amazing simplicity of the design and anticipated efficiencies. For some reason the idea didn’t really catch on...

The Wartburg wasn't a massive seller either.

 

[219]

Adding LPG to diesel is still pretty rare I think and needs care in the application of it.
Much is known about LPG applied to SI engines though. They are better at controlling particulates and UBHC (as liquid fuel doesn't congregate in the 'crevice volumes - above rings and behind valve edges - which is slow to burn if at all). What is much less recognised is that a SI engine can run exclusively on LPG ie, from cold start. And, from cold start, no additional fuel enrichment is required as per petrol. For city use, these must be strong advantages surely?
The traditional objection of having to site an additional tank is countered by ditching the petrol tank (see above) and using that space for an LPG tank. Compared to the complete redesign of architectures for EV, installing an LPG tank is child's play.

I know it's unusual , and I don't think CI can run purely on LPG , but I wondered if mixing the two fuels would reduce emissions significantly , which I thing is the main objection to Diesels in built up areas ?

 

[BlackC55]

If the SL shop are now offering R107 electric conversions , you could become the go to guy for electric R129 conversions !

We have been looking into it. The investment is quite massive and I just don't have the space or time right now, but i'm working on it.

 

[Bellow]

The Wartburg wasn't a massive seller either.

Saabs did OK. Maybe the rest of the Wartburg wasn't that good - or buying Russian cars somehow cast you as of a particular political persuasion.

I remember a Tomorrow’s World episode in the early 90’s featuring a prototype Ford Fiesta with a 2-stroke engine ‘ready for a 2-stroke revolution’. The presenters pointed out the amazing simplicity of the design and anticipated efficiencies. For some reason the idea didn’t really catch on...

It seized.
Smokey and they banned it. Just some of the things that have been said of it.

It's complicated. And mysterious. Why, was a guy in the USA who was part of Yamaha's marine outboard engine distribution network, instructed by Yamaha to destroy an entire warehouse's worth of 2T motors? We'll never know. The direct injection should have worked for most 2T engines operating at what we regard as normal rev ranges but somehow it all fell apart. They are still the engine of choice (diesel fueled) for the largest of ocean going ships - for their untouchable fuel efficiency. The only engines that have challenged them for FE is the hybrid era F1 engines but only on account of their pre-chamber design. That applied to 2T could possibly make them viable again. The prejudices are significant though.
400+ hp/litre naturally aspirated isn't too shabby for an engine with a crankshaft and con rod whirling around in its inlet manifold.

 

[Bellow]

I know it's unusual , and I don't think CI can run purely on LPG , but I wondered if mixing the two fuels would reduce emissions significantly , which I thing is the main objection to Diesels in built up areas ?

Probably not as the aim is to mop up the oxygen the diesel misses by combining it with the LPG. The result is more NOx as the pressure and temperature rises.
Where you will find the two combined is in larger engines where diesel is used in a small quantity only to ignite a gas/air charge. Typically it will be a stationary engine where the gas is piped in as per mains gas and is likely to be CNG.

 

[Rory]

Read somewhere that the lives saved due to cleaner air actually exceeds the C-19 deaths.
Sounds implausible but the public don't have much of a grasp of how lethal poor air quality is.

The question I'd like answered is how many with poor respiratory health due to poor air quality then became C-19 patients due to that underlying issue. With better air quality, might they have avoided becoming a C-19 patient?

In the UK at least, now the weekly total number of deaths is starting to come through since C-19 hit, there's been a substantial increase over the usual figure - 5 or 6 thousand, from 11K ish to 16K ish per week.


In China the number 'saved' on the roads due to lockdown far exceeded the reported numbers of C-19 deaths - an incredible 700 die per day on the road there in normal times.

 

[Alex225]

One thing that will make a huge difference to traffic levels in general is how many companies now realise people can work from home. I work for a large accountancy firm who always had a view towards, 'agile working'. This has now changed to them saying they want as few people physically in the office as possible. Saves money for them in terms of space, saves workers costs and time in terms of commuting. Even if 10% of office based businesses took up that mentality, it would reduce the need to travel for hundreds of thousands of people.

I'd be surprised if they look to ban current diesels from the roads. When you consider that maybe 3 years ago diesel sales outnumbered petrol cars the negative impact this would have on individuals would be huge.

Banning new diesel cars sooner? Well I can potentially see this being reasonable. With hybrid and electric options being genuinely a viable option, it's at least realistic. Banning current diesels from the road seems absurd.

 

[GeeJayW]

Working from home was always seen as a 'skivers' charter, certainly by people that aren't able to work from home and by managers that don't trust or understand their employees.

Hopefully this may change following the current situation. If people that can work from home do so going forward, it will take loads of vehicles off the road and reduce the load on public transport. It will also reduce the need for expensive office space in big cities etc.

I've never understood the need for people to commute daily so that they can sit in front of a computer screen, have telephone conferences etc. Sure some office time is needed, but not all the time.

 

[grober]

There's a vast pre-existing pool of diesel vehicles presently on the UK roads and that's not going to change anytime soon. Its unlikely they will "banned" per-se but will likely be "phased out" ahead possibly of a more general reduction in fossil fuel burning vehicles. To encourage this shift government will act in the same fashion as it did to encourage us to adopt diesel power in the first place -by altering the vehicle/fuel taxation regime associated with it. As an adjunct to this IC vehicles are likely to be prohibited /restricted from access /ownership in densely populated areas as another inducement to change. The indicators are already there if people care to look. In terms of whether the global pandemic will accelerate this -- it may indeed in the longer term, but the immediate economic downturn may equally grant diesel vehicles a few years reprieve.

 

[Bellow]

In the UK at least, now the weekly total number of deaths is starting to come through since C-19 hit, there's been a substantial increase over the usual figure - 5 or 6 thousand, from 11K ish to 16K ish per week.

The effects (expected improved health) of cleaner air will take some time to manifest though. It would also require that the air continues to be clean.

In China the number 'saved' on the roads due to lockdown far exceeded the reported numbers of C-19 deaths - an incredible 700 die per day on the road there in normal times.

I suspect, there will be some startling figures from all over the place as pointers as to how we can do a whole range of things better/safer.

 

[ChipChop]

Overlooking that you've been a member here for all of 15 days but seem well versed on my behaviour - despite me barely posting this past fortnight - what does accusing something of being 'fake news' aim to achieve other than 'shut down a discussion'?



What article? I only mentioned respiratory health in relation to air quality and you went all Trump accusing experts of lying for their own gain.

What does the duration of my membership of this forum matter?

If you think a newbie should keep there mouth shut then winge to the admins not me.

As for name calling and various other little digs in you posts on this thread well there is always people like that on internet forums.

All part of lifes rich pageant so carry on but don't burst a blood vessel because A&E is a dangerous place to be right now.

 

[350cls]

Plenty of other petrol cars besides AMG .

Name them

 

[Petrol Pete]

Working from home was always seen as a 'skivers' charter, certainly by people that aren't able to work from home and by managers that don't trust or understand their employees.

Hopefully this may change following the current situation. If people that can work from home do so going forward, it will take loads of vehicles off the road and reduce the load on public transport. It will also reduce the need for expensive office space in big cities etc.

I've never understood the need for people to commute daily so that they can sit in front of a computer screen, have telephone conferences etc. Sure some office time is needed, but not all the time.

Fair enough but there is only a tiny portion of the workforce that can work from home, I remember when working from home was a new thing , admittedly 'connectivity' was crude and a bit slow , but certain 'work from homes' missed the camaraderie of the office and the banter around the water cooler and drifted back into the building more often than not. By that time 'hot desking' was seen as the answer to that. Times and tech have changed and I agree , a dedicated employee could brobably get 6 hours worth of 'in office' work done in 3 hours at home ...without distractions.

But genuine work from homers are a minority.

 

[GeeJayW]

Fair enough but there is only a tiny portion of the workforce that can work from home, I remember when working from home was a new thing , admittedly 'connectivity' was crude and a bit slow , but certain 'work from homes' missed the camaraderie of the office and the banter around the water cooler and drifted back into the building more often than not. By that time 'hot desking' was seen as the answer to that. Times and tech have changed and I agree , a dedicated employee could brobably get 6 hours worth of 'in office' work done in 3 hours at home ...without distractions.

But genuine work from homers are a minority.

Maybe that will change...?

 

[wivenhoe]

The EU politicians decided that the way to reduce pollution was to fine car manufactures from 2020 for exceeding an overall average of 95g / km of CO2 - as diesels generally have a lower CO2 emission than petrols the manufacturers churned out diesels and hence the market is flooded with them. The EU had the opportunity to base the fine on other emissions such as NOx or particulates but I suspect pressure from the German manufacturers led them to use CO2 - Dieselgate was all about VW trying to convince Americans to switch to allegedly clean diesel as they were so dependent on them.

I can’t see the UK government in the short term restricting the use of diesels or petrols as they will be desperate to get the incredibly high taxes on diesel & petrols. There is only 5% VAT on electric but almost 70% taxes on fuel.

Also, how could they possibly ban diesel cars without banning all the diesel lorries and buses ?

 

[E55BOF]

What does the duration of my membership of this forum matter?

If you think a newbie should keep there mouth shut then winge to the admins not me.

As for name calling and various other little digs in you posts on this thread well there is always people like that on internet forums.

All part of lifes rich pageant so carry on but don't burst a blood vessel because A&E is a dangerous place to be right now.

You don't really get it, do you? If you post views that other disagree with, you must expect that they will respond. It's called discussion, and we do a lot of it on here. If you don't like it, then perhaps you should 'winge' to the mods.

As for "there is always people like that on internet forums", indeed there are, and some of us may be inclined to suspect that you're one of them. Don't be so defensive; somebody disagreeing with you, and pointing out what they consider to flaws in your arguments, is not a personal insult.

 

[Senator]

Some interesting points here. There will definitely be a shift in attitude towards home working after this, which might change commuting habits, but overall car use will be back to pre covid 19 levels as soon as restriction are lifted.

Air travel has a lot to answer for though. Even if people are prepared to squash themselves into these sardine cans after the pandemic, perhaps the damage done the the aviation industry will make 'cheap as chips' air travel a thing of the past?