Time to relax our draconian laws on drugs?

[Deleted member 65149]

For many years now I’ve listened to and read the views of people telling us that our strict drugs laws are not only unnecessary and outdated, but actually encourage illegal drugs gangs and the killings associated with them. We’re told that many of the drugs still classified as illegal in the U.K. are far less harmful that alcohol and cigarettes, instead providing proven medical benefits. People struggle to comprehend why we can’t take a more relaxed approach to drugs like they do in the Netherlands where society is reaping the benefits. Or are they? This interesting piece gives a very different picture:

Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I don't have a problem with weed or party drugs as users generally harm themselves only and fewer users become addicted.

I am concerned about smack heads as they become so dependent that they are unable to work in order to pay and that is why they commit so many muggings/burglary etc.

 

[Doodle]

My friend's younger brother caused himself some serious mischief on weed, as a student in Amsterdam. I said at the time that letting him go there unsupervised with an income from his parents was a bad idea

He's not quite at the sh*tting his underwear stage, but he is scarcely able to function or interact independently in the real world. Fortunately his parents are retired and are well off so can support him living at home (I'm not sure baking your brain qualifies for incapacity benefits), but another decade or 2 and they will be gone and I don't see his brother wanting to take up the mantle of looking after a 40/50-something child.

 

[alabbasi]

Marijuana has been legalized in several states in the US for either medicinal or recreational uses. For the most part, it's raised a bunch of revenue for these states that were able to pass through legislation by promising to use the tax money to find schools etc.
It does bring its own problems with the migration of deadbeats but for the most part, I do not think that it has harmed in the way that people who are against legalization would warn about. It has made the states and a few people a lot of money.

 

[KennyN]

Just because our "authorities" cant control it doesn`t mean it should be legalised to sweep it under the carpet . What will happen in another 20 years are they going to legalise class A drugs because they also cant control them due to the fact there will be more people taking them as the legalised common place class B drugs aren`t giving them the desired effect anymore.

Leave the draconian laws as they are , at least it may stop another person taking the potential slippery slope.

BTW , I have no issues with it being used for controlled medicinal purposes.

K

 

[Deleted member 37751]

If both alcohol and marijuana were illegal right now and one had to be legalised, you’d certainly have a hard time making a case for the drink!

I’m fully in the legalise and tax it camp, as much as the puritans want to aim for some type of nirvana where everyone is an angel I’m afraid it’s just never going to happen.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

DP

 

[saff]

I dont much care what people do to themselves, but as Dr Feelgood suggests its when they become a burden or danger to others that raises concerns.

 

[Riva811]

Let's trust people not to abuse it, generation dumb incoming.

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[Darrell]

I’m very anti drugs but I’ve been rattling this idea around in my head for a while only because it might get some of the murdering county-lines type scum off the streets.
How would it actually work though??

 

[bigcarpchaser]

I can take or leave alcohol.
I smoke small cigars and am aware of the danger but I don’t “get” drugs really.
I don’t understand what people get out of it. I know that’s a contradiction but cigars don’t mess with your head or make you want to fight people.

I’d ban the lot, including booze.


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[Petrol Pete]

I hear the legal stuff in Canada is not very well received because of low quality/too dry issues, so the illegal stuff is still widely available and preferred by the 'heads'.

 

[KennyN]

Regarding putting the gangs out of business by legalising drugs then that idea is pie in the sky . They will just move into another area of criminality as that is what they do , plus they will eventually be able to supply stronger and cheaper drugs undercutting the legal ways of obtaining it them keeping them in business.

There are no easy answers to such deep rooted problems but one thing is certain , it is getting worse and more socially acceptable because people now think of it as "only" a bit of weed

K

 

[Bellow]

For many years now I’ve listened to and read the views of people telling us that our strict drugs laws are not only unnecessary and outdated, but actually encourage illegal drugs gangs and the killings associated with them. We’re told that many of the drugs still classified as illegal in the U.K. are far less harmful that alcohol and cigarettes, instead providing proven medical benefits. People struggle to comprehend why we can’t take a more relaxed approach to drugs like they do in the Netherlands where society is reaping the benefits. Or are they? This interesting piece gives a very different picture:

Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?

There are crime syndicates who orchestrate thefts of motor cars and in pockets are no doubt violent. This despite cars being 'legal' in every country around the world. How much worse would it be if cars were illegal (and invisible - obviously to make the metaphor work)?

Away form organised crime operating globally (and performing money laundering for who knows who) legalisation/decriminalisation would take otherwise law abiding recreational drug users out of the criminal network to their advantage.

When someone goes to buy some cannabis for a bit of relaxation at the weekend and is told 'no weed mate, want some speed?' something is very wrong with that market.

The reason there is a reluctance to a more lenient approach here (UK) is the authorities believe that legalisation/decriminalisation would put the established dealer networks out of work and that they would move to other crime. Other crime not confined to the plebs and dregs but crime that would move up the food chain and get closer to affecting those who make the laws. Our drug laws and attitudes to them are a sign of just how vacuous and self serving our law makers are.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

The reason there is a reluctance to a more lenient approach here (UK) is the authorities believe that legalisation/decriminalisation would put the established dealer networks out of work and that they would move to other crime. Other crime not confined to the plebs and dregs but crime that would move up the food chain and get closer to affecting those who make the laws. Our drug laws and attitudes to them are a sign of just how vacuous and self serving our law makers are.

Did you read the article I linked to at the start? The greater leniency in the Netherlands hasn’t driven drug dealers into alternative crimes, it’s just made it easier for them to operate with more freely available more addictive and more dangerous drugs. The increased level of operation is leading to more severe gang warfare, as well as the deaths of innocent people. Rather than being “vacuous and self-serving”, our lawmakers are thankfully (so far) refusing to bow to the pressures being exerted by the increasing numbers of those who have already had their minds altered and so failing to see the blindingly obvious. We’ve already seen the harm caused by our legal highs (mainly alcohol and tobacco, but increasingly various pills), so why add to the problems we have?

 

[LTD]

So, legalise marijuana yet the EU are banning menthol cigarettes from sale in May 2020 ?

The shark is being well and truly jumped

 

[Bellow]

Did you read the article I linked to at the start? The greater leniency in the Netherlands hasn’t driven drug dealers into alternative crimes, it’s just made it easier for them to operate with more freely available more addictive and more dangerous drugs. The increased level of operation is leading to more severe gang warfare, as well as the deaths of innocent people. Rather than being “vacuous and self-serving”, our lawmakers are thankfully (so far) refusing to bow to the pressures being exerted by the increasing numbers of those who have already had their minds altered and so failing to see the blindingly obvious. We’ve already seen the harm caused by our legal highs (mainly alcohol and tobacco, but increasingly various pills), so why add to the problems we have?

Yes I read it - which is why I included the link in the quote.
If everything sited in it related to within the Netherlands' borders it would have some validity but Holland is part of the shipping route to and from countries where there is prohibition. Blaming Holland's relaxed laws is like blaming the North Sea for smuggled goods into the UK.
Nor can the laxer Dutch laws be much of a benefit to dealers at this level as the permitted amount of possession is a tiny tiny fraction of what is being shifted.

As for those ''who have already had their minds altered'' is a statement as ridiculous as the 'test for witches' and equally past its sell-by date and only fuels the moral hysteria that purposely shrouds the issue. Who has had their mind altered?

One day some people are going to have to accept that some people (most actually if alcohol, tobacco, tea and coffee are included) want to use recreational drugs and will ignore laws that prevent them from indulging in them. Continued resistance to that fuels the black market and draws forward the narco state - which is a real possibility currently, especially if there is any kind of economic downturn.
There is however a fantastic opportunity to legalise cannabis, licence growers (recreational and medicinal) and create a useful revenue stream from tax. Talk to cannabis users and they will tell you all they want is provision for a legal supply for relaxation purposes. When that is achieved, most will not contemplate any other drug that could lead to prosecution. As it is, 'hang for a sheep than a lamb' applies.

Prohibition does not work. Never has and never will and while the level of surveillance required to get closer to enforcement may be already available, no one in their right might would advocate its implementation.

 

[John N]

Yes I read it - which is why I included the link in the quote.
If everything sited in it related to within the Netherlands' borders it would have some validity but Holland is part of the shipping route to and from countries where there is prohibition. Blaming Holland's relaxed laws is like blaming the North Sea for smuggled goods into the UK.
Nor can the laxer Dutch laws be much of a benefit to dealers at this level as the permitted amount of possession is a tiny tiny fraction of what is being shifted.

As for those ''who have already had their minds altered'' is a statement as ridiculous as the 'test for witches' and equally past its sell-by date and only fuels the moral hysteria that purposely shrouds the issue. Who has had their mind altered?

One day some people are going to have to accept that some people (most actually if alcohol, tobacco, tea and coffee are included) want to use recreational drugs and will ignore laws that prevent them from indulging in them. Continued resistance to that fuels the black market and draws forward the narco state - which is a real possibility currently, especially if there is any kind of economic downturn.
There is however a fantastic opportunity to legalise cannabis, licence growers (recreational and medicinal) and create a useful revenue stream from tax. Talk to cannabis users and they will tell you all they want is provision for a legal supply for relaxation purposes. When that is achieved, most will not contemplate any other drug that could lead to prosecution. As it is, 'hang for a sheep than a lamb' applies.

Prohibition does not work. Never has and never will and while the level of surveillance required to get closer to enforcement may be already available, no one in their right might would advocate its implementation.

And there was I thinking that the OP's Link was stating that the Dutch Authorites have decided or come to the conclusion, that their descision to Legalise and go all soft on Cannabis and Marjiwana (My word for it) had in all Circumstances CREATED the Dutch Narco State.

 

[Bellow]

And there was I thinking that the OP's Link was stating that the Dutch Authorites have decided or come to the conclusion, that their descision to Legalise and go all soft on Cannabis and Marjiwana (My word for it) had in all Circumstances CREATED the Dutch Narco State.

Holland is like South American narco states? - please....

 

[John N]

Holland is like South American narco states? - please....

So you didn't read the Article then!