To buy a 190e with fuelling issues?

[MichaelMB]

A surprising number of 190e s are being offered for sale, without a substantial discount, where the seller is frank enough to admit that they have no more time to investigate an issue. eg poor cold starting ("might just be the HT leads"....or might need a new K-Jetronic), or it randomly stalls when warm and decelerating. Or indeed has clutch judder when cold.

When I sell cars they are running well, so I'm surprised at how many 190e s have issues like these but are still asking £5-7k (because they are said to have no rust and have the combination of factory A/C and no sunroof that I prefer).

Am I unfair to think that with faults like these, which the seller has tried to resolve themselves but given up on, I should expect almost £1500-£2000 off so I can hand it to a Mercedes Independent and say "please fix" ?

 

[MichaelMB]

A surprising number of 190e s are being offered for sale, without a substantial discount, where the seller is frank enough to admit that they have no more time to investigate an issue. eg poor cold starting ("might just be the HT leads"....or might need a new K-Jetronic), or it randomly stalls when warm and decelerating. Or indeed has clutch judder when cold.

When I sell cars they are running well, so I'm surprised at how many 190e s have issues like these but are still asking £5-7k (because they are said to have no rust and have the combination of factory A/C and no sunroof that I prefer).

Am I unfair to think that with faults like these, which the seller has tried to resolve themselves but given up on, I should expect almost £1500-£2000 off so I can hand it to a Mercedes Independent and say "please fix" ?

PS do many give up on K Jetronic and convert the 290e to Megasquirt or similar? I read that a better version of KJ was used on the W124, perhaps just the later models.

 

[grober]

My advice would be never buy a NON-RUNNER- a car that is not driven every day routinely

 

[MichaelMB]

My advice would be never buy a NON-RUNNER- a car that is not driven every day routinely

I'm starting to feel that way about them. They are apparently running and driving, but looks like the owners of the various cars advertised like this have got frustrated and given up putting more time, money and effort into them.

 

[ChipChop]

A surprising number of 190e s are being offered for sale, without a substantial discount, where the seller is frank enough to admit that they have no more time to investigate an issue. eg poor cold starting ("might just be the HT leads"....or might need a new K-Jetronic), or it randomly stalls when warm and decelerating. Or indeed has clutch judder when cold.

When I sell cars they are running well, so I'm surprised at how many 190e s have issues like these but are still asking £5-7k (because they are said to have no rust and have the combination of factory A/C and no sunroof that I prefer).

Am I unfair to think that with faults like these, which the seller has tried to resolve themselves but given up on, I should expect almost £1500-£2000 off so I can hand it to a Mercedes Independent and say "please fix" ?

Not unreasonable to expect to pay less for a car on sale with disclosed faults. Bosch dizzy caps & rotor arms are apparently quite expensive. As are genuine OVP relays and idle control 'valves'.
Ali express OVP relays however are a bargain (sub £8 delivered!) and apparently function just fine (see link below). One possible solution to stalling KE jet on 190e's is to disconnect the idle control potentiometer (valve). They will run without the electronic input i am told.

The other way to avoid issues with ageing electronic injection systems is to buy a mechanically injected diesel w201. No engine ecu so no problems.

Car Overload Protection Relay Stable Performance Wear Resistant Overload Relay for Mercedes Benz R129 W124 W126 W201 2015403745 - AliExpress 34

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[MichaelMB]

Not unreasonable to expect to pay less for a car on sale with disclosed faults. Bosch dizzy caps & rotor arms are apparently quite expensive. As are genuine OVP relays and idle control 'valves'. Ali express OVP relays however are a bargain (sub £8 delivered!) and apparently function just fine (see link below). One possible solution to stalling KE jet on 190e's is to disconnect the idle control potentiometer (valve). They will run without the electronic input i am told.

The other way to avoid issues with ageing electronic injection systems is to buy a mechanically injected diesel w201.

Car Overload Protection Relay Stable Performance Wear Resistant Overload Relay for Mercedes Benz R129 W124 W126 W201 2015403745 - AliExpress 34

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Very useful info as ever, thanks. I'd love a diesel W201 and have seen one for sale in Ireland. But I am already being optimistic looking for factory air, no sunroof, no rust, small engine. Throw diesel into the mix as a 'must have ' and pigs might fly!

 

[190]

A surprising number of 190e s are being offered for sale, without a substantial discount, where the seller is frank enough to admit that they have no more time to investigate an issue. eg poor cold starting ("might just be the HT leads"....or might need a new K-Jetronic), or it randomly stalls when warm and decelerating. Or indeed has clutch judder when cold.

When I sell cars they are running well, so I'm surprised at how many 190e s have issues like these but are still asking £5-7k (because they are said to have no rust and have the combination of factory A/C and no sunroof that I prefer).

Am I unfair to think that with faults like these, which the seller has tried to resolve themselves but given up on, I should expect almost £1500-£2000 off so I can hand it to a Mercedes Independent and say "please fix" ?

I had a long term problem with my 190e which I kept for 21 years. The cold start injector was providing excessive richness which made starting difficult. Once running it was perfect. I could find nothing wrong with the circuit that controlled the cold start injector so eventually I decided to just fool the ECU into thinking that the ambient temperature was higher than it really was by adding a fixed resistance in parallel with the engine temperature sensor. After a bit of experimentation with the resistor value it work well and had no impact on hot running. There is also a cold start air admittance valve which basically bypasses the normal idle air adjuster to raise idle speed when cold. It's a simple thermal valve bolted to the engine which opens when the temperature is cold and closes as the engine warms up with some assistance from an electrical heating element. Being at the back of the engine, this valve is a bit of a pig to get at and remove but it is adjustable and I found mine wasn't opening enough which will have compounded the excessive richness.

My take on the K Jetronic was that the original mechanical system was sound and well under stood by those experienced in fixing it. The Ke system which 190e had, retained the basic mechanical system but added an ECU to fine tune the mixture including partially controlling cold start. I discovered there were several iterations of exactly how the cold start enrichment was controlled and I suspected that MB had kept modifying it over the years to make it work better.

 

[MichaelMB]

I had a long term problem with my 190e which I kept for 21 years. The cold start injector was providing excessive richness which made starting difficult. Once running it was perfect. I could find nothing wrong with the circuit that controlled the cold start injector so eventually I decided to just fool the ECU into thinking that the ambient temperature was higher than it really was by adding a fixed resistance in parallel with the engine temperature sensor. After a bit of experimentation with the resistor value it work well and had no impact on hot running. There is also a cold start air admittance valve which basically bypasses the normal idle air adjuster to raise idle speed when cold. It's a simple thermal valve bolted to the engine which opens when the temperature is cold and closes as the engine warms up with some assistance from an electrical heating element. Being at the back of the engine, this valve is a bit of a pig to get at and remove but it is adjustable and I found mine wasn't opening enough which will have compounded the excessive richness.

My take on the K Jetronic was that the original mechanical system was sound and well under stood by those experienced in fixing it. The Ke system which 190e had, retained the basic mechanical system but added an ECU to fine tune the mixture including partially controlling cold start. I discovered there were several iterations of exactly how the cold start enrichment was controlled and I suspected that MB had kept modifying it over the years to make it work better.

Thanks, so the later the better in this regard. Or possibly, Megasquirt?