• The Forums are now open to new registrations, adverts are also being de-tuned.

To restore or not Restore-that is the question, whether 'tis nobler to suffer the...

crammy69

Active Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
874
Location
Sidcup,Kent
Car
2001 W210 E55 AMG,2010 Fiat 500 1.2,2002 Triumph America,LML Star 125 DLX,1984 C70,2011 Thruxton
Following on from my post I've been doing a fair bit of thinking about my car and the merits of 'restoring' it.

Its made me ponder the mind-set of owners who renovate & restore cars when its obvious to them that the expense is more than the actual car will be worth?.

Is it the love of a particular car or model the crux of classic car ownership? or the desire to make new that which is not, ignoring the economics of it, chasing the ideal/dream of an old car that drives and appears as new?.

Any views?
 
Depends what you mean by "restore".
There is a huge gulf between the 2 points of Pebble Beach concours and "MOT passable".
Get the balance right (cost versus value). Thats where I would start. Dont overspend like some do. The car then becomes a cash cow and will bleed you dry. Retain a degree of senseability and within your own budget.
 
Following on from my post I've been doing a fair bit of thinking about my car and the merits of 'restoring' it.

Its made me ponder the mind-set of owners who renovate & restore cars when its obvious to them that the expense is more than the actual car will be worth?.

Is it the love of a particular car or model the crux of classic car ownership? or the desire to make new that which is not, ignoring the economics of it, chasing the ideal/dream of an old car that drives and appears as new?.

Any views?

i can only speak for myself, but there are several reasons why i am restoring my R107 SL:

- dont want to spend the amount it costs to buy a mint one from a dealer etc
- enjoy the "making parts look brand new again" thing
- satisfaction

i wouldnt spend over the top money on restoring it but happy to spend a reasonable amount to have it up to scratch.

i know that people commented on the car before i started its "restoration" - it will be a good feeling when someone comments on it and i know i did all the work.

EDIT: as noted above, my "restoration" is just getting the car to a standard i can be proud of. And will be very much a rolling restoration once the bits i'm working on at the moment are done. its by no means going to be any where near concours etc but will be up to the standard i like to keep my cars in
 
Depends what you mean by "restore".
There is a huge gulf between the 2 points of Pebble Beach concours and "MOT passable".
Get the balance right (cost versus value). Thats where I would start. Dont overspend like some do. The car then becomes a cash cow and will bleed you dry. Retain a degree of senseability and within your own budget.

I was thinking more along the lines of very presentable, rather than Pebble beach!. To my mind, you cant really create the sort of cars that win concourse events unless you start with very low mileage, cosseted and original cars in the first instance. For me the car has to be usable, not so pristine that you are scared to use it. Dont get me wrong I love seeing those sort of cars at shows, but for me the pleasure is driving them not showing.
 
I had a conversation with Ulrich Bez, CEO of Aston Martin about this after someone paid an exorbitant price for a box of bits with the intention of producing a DB4. We decided that it is all about the journey, not the cost. Of course how deep your pockets are will make a difference to the levels you can aspire to but the journey remains the same.

I myself have restored everyng from an MGB GT V8 to an Aston Martin V8 and I can attest to this. Once a project like this is finished (and some can take an awful long time to get there) I want to sell it and start looking for the next project.

I made money on both cars mentioned above BTW but that was never the intention and had more to do with buying at the bottom of the car's fashion lifecycle and selling it on the upswing.
 
a classic car club was in town yesterday. A number of "restored" classic tore about the place. A larger number of "restored" classic stayed in the car park, on jacks with people in flat caps rolling about underneath them, doing lots of tutting and improvising spanners out of hammers and such like.

Not one of them looked concourse, but all of them were "enjoyed" by owners, and most of which needed a clean, and a polish to my mind. All were attempting to remain orginal and in working order.

Better than smoking I suppose, and as long as you enjoy it, someone else will appreciate the effort you make too.
 
We all know how profitable Porsche are. A fair chunk of those profits must come from their restoration arm.

Fools and their money are soon parted as they have a factory refurb of their really rather average and old 911.

But hey. That's their choice.

My dad used to restore Astons, but he did it all himself and he used to love doing so, for the pleasure, not any potential profit.
 
If you know the car and like it.........In my view it is better to restore than buy another.........
You can do a lot with £1,000 or £2,000 or £3,000, especially if you put some work in yourself.
There are levels of restoration and the W124 will always look a CLASSic vehicle

W124s are all worth saving...........get it in good nick and it will last.

What it costs you for a mild restoration is a lot less than you will lose in depreciation on one of the "regular" 2 or 3 year old cars, and if you only use it for a couple of years the enjoyment you get from driving it will be worth it.
Older cars have character

Will the 4 speed box not fit in your car, (rather than the 5 speed box that you have a present)?
 
Last edited:
For me, personally, unless it was a very rare car or one that i had a personal attachment to I'm not sure I'd bother, unless it was finacially worth it.

I say this as although I enjoy playing with cars, I appreciate that sometimes it's cheaper/better in the long run to just buy the very best car that you can afford - very few restored cars are better than original (paint, mechanicals, trim etc).

And sometimes, no matter how many ££££s you spend on a car 'restoring' it, it doesn't always turn into exactly what you hope it will.

Generally, I'd rather a mint, perfect, always loved and properly cared for car. For most cars, it's just a case of waiting until one comes up.

Having had several older MBs I still hold this viewpoint today :)

The smartest move is to buy a cheap but strong car and run it on a budget - bangernomics. Or to just buy the nicest example that you can - let someone else spend the ££££s looking after it and then you're taking ownership with no outstanding bills etc. The trouble seems to start when your halfway between these two - ie, not cheap enough that you don't care about it but struggle to justify spending cash, but it's too nice to scrap etc. Nor is it clean/special enough that you can just close your eyes and keep pumping the cash in :wallbash:

All IMHO of course!

Will
 
I like to think I restore mine on a monthly basis because as soon as anything needs doing to it I do it and ALWAYS buy Mercedes original parts.

So, whilst I have a car body that has done approx 167,000 miles the complete suspension (front and rear and subframe bushes and diff bushes) are probably all as young as ANY E320 coupe you wiill ever see for sale at the present time.

So the car feels original and good to drive.

It is a bonus I can do it myself and it is a hobby for me also.

I feel lucky that I fell for this Merc coupe concept and decided it was the car for the rest of my driving days.

Saying that I feel I am just looking after it for the next generation that comes along, and the person that buys it next will have a car with a good history profile with all the suporting evidence.

If you like a particular car to own and drive then I cannot seen the sense in say using a Fiesta for a daily commute and just driving the classic at weekends.

If you like the classic then use it all the time as your daily car as I do.

So, is mine a high mileage car or half and half, and would it be attractive to some future buyer ????????
 
Lots of myths about restoring cars being expensive, for those people who have the money to spend it probably is, but i buy stuff second hand or trade for it, even buying a whloe car for one part and then breaking the rest, i have never spent anywhere near the final value of a car getting it to the finished article, i usually buy a running car thats just failed its MOT and fix it up while i'm using it, painting it last of all, my 500 quid coupe has cost me about £150 on top of that for bits its needed so far, and i've spent £200 on a cream leather interior i havent fitted yet, i have a 300bhp V8 and gearbox to fit in it thats cost my 500 although i could just do the valve stem oil seals on my original lump to stop it smoking and leave that in there.

Its a matter of how much you can do yourself, who you know who you can swop trades for and how bothered you are about scoring points with the boring concours anoraks rather than having a tidy, useable classic out on the road your not afraid to use and have fun with, i'm skint and i've been doing cars up for years on a budget, as have many of my mates.
 
It is all about fun , satisfaction in a job well done , and the love of the car in question .

I bought my 1957 219 27 years ago , in 1982 , when I was a pimply faced young man and this was the first car I'd bought with my own money , of which I didn't have a lot : pretty much the equivalent of a young person now buying a 190E .

I did a 'mild' restoration then : new tyres , exhaust , brake overhaul and a few cosmetics on what was basically a fairly sound car in a condition comparable to most W201 or W124 cars today - only at that time there were perhaps 200 of ALL Ponton models left in the UK and no more than four or five W105's - so we are talking about a pretty rare car , even back in the early 80's I got used to people coming up and asking questions about it , finding a crowd huddled around it on my return or offers to buy tucked under the wiper in a note .

Of course , in the 1950's and 1960's Mercedes were not nearly as common in this country as they are today , partly due to slow restart of production after the war , partly due to residual anti-German sentiments back then and partly because back then the cars were , in real terms , MUCH more expensive than they are today - my 219 in 1957 had a list price of approx £2200 : a sum which would have bought a substantial house anywhere in the UK at that time and way more than a Jaguar or Rover . Even in 1964 , my dad's entry level 190 Fintail was £1800-odds ( I still have the invoice somewhere ) - a year or so earlier he had bought the house I grew up in for a similar amount of money , we sold the house many years ago but it recently changed hands for in excess of £400,000 .

Even so , you can today buy a car for a few hundred that someone previously might have paid many tens of thousands for . It is highly improbable that spending loads of cash on a restoration would ever restore such a car to the same monetary value - unless it was of some singular historic importance - like finding Eugen Bohringer's 300SE or Stirling Moss's 300SLR - so we do it for some other reason .

In my case , my car which I have so far owned for some 27 years , and drove as my main car for 15 or so years before I had to lay it up pending further restoration ( something I could not contemplate at the time having a young family ) has a lot of special meaning to me - I am currently 'collecting parts' for the restoration and it will probably keep me occupied in my retiral ( the car is still basicaly sound and runs , but needs a fair amount of work to return to the road ) - it will be passed on to my son or daughter once I have departed this world .

The Fintail I bought a couple of years ago also holds some sentimental value as it is the type of car I remember being the family car during my formative years . Since this particular car does not have the same importance to me as the Ponton , I am using it as a 'practice run' to perfect my various skills - I feel competent enough on things mechanical , having worked on so many models down the years , but am currently teaching myself welding , wood restoration and will need to work on my paint-spraying techniques at some point .

Neither of these cars will be offered for sale on completion , so money is not the object , nor is standing in a field with the flat-capped brigade kicking tyres : I will get my rewards from the pleasure in OWNING and DRIVING a distinctive and probably unique vehicle .

My W126 is just a daily driver and will get what maintenance/repairs it needs to keep it roadworthy , but that's about it .

Everyone , of course , has their own reasons for what they do .
 
Last edited:
Many thanks everyone, some great insights, very inspirational. One key difference between the bangernomics path and the enthusiast path is the pragmatism to know when to leg go!. I am between the two at the minute. Given my low annual mileage (I take the train to work) a car is 95% want and only 5% need, and as such it has to be more than simply transport, its has to be a hobby as well.

I off to the gearbox specialist tommorrow morning to get a diagnosis/quote lets see what happens, Ill also ask if its possible to stick a 4 speed in but Im not sure if theres an impact on the electronic side of things?.
 
Every time I've taken on a project it has spiraled out of control. I just don't have the self control to tidy it up and enjoy it, it has to be absolutely right.

The problem with this is, it never is absolutely right unless it's a bare metal nut and bolt rebuild and quite likely in better condition than it left the factory new.

This was one of the many reasons for letting go of the SEC I had...it was escalating to be a preposterously expensive exercise, which with the change of economy I simply couldn't justify or afford.....

I know I wouldn't have been happy with a quick blow over and a few tweaks........

Like jay, I'd have been 26 pages into a project saying...nearly there...just go to do.................
 
Ill also ask if its possible to stick a 4 speed in but Im not sure if theres an impact on the electronic side of things?.

My 300TE-24 had a 4 speed auto box , so the combination was available - thus should be possible .....
 
Having undertaken something of a rolling resto on my CE over the last 2 years which has resulted in an outlay of significantly more than current market value, I enjoyed shiny paint for about 6 months before someone dinged the OS front wing.. Still 27k miles & 2 1/2 years into ownership I'm still enjoying getting in the car every time.

The only problem is every time I fix something, something else packs in... Spent ££££ on suspension overhaul, then the thermostat housing, cruise control & leccy aerial pack in. Resto works currently in abeyance as it's running fine & we've finally got builders in to finish our bloody flat...

There are now umpteen things to do to get it to a proper standard but I'm happy for now - the car has proven pretty reliable so far, is withstanding abuse from my 18 month old and costing a lot less to run than the finance on a modern equivalent. Get it fixed Crammy & enjoy it when it works ;)

Ade
 
i would say go for it..................:D

It will have to be a labour of love otherwise it will start to become a pain as its never ending.

If you can do most of the work your self it will save you alot but mercedes parts are not cheap as you probadly will know already.

Neil
 
Stage 1 - ascerain real world estimate for gearbox - Tick!

Took the car to Mr Transmission in Charlton today, lovely guys and very knowledgeble on gearboxes. They confirmed that the gearbox needs removing to ascertain exaclty how bad it is, and said that worst case scenario is that a full rebuild is required which they would do for £1200 plus vat. They said tthat once the gearbox is out I could be lucky and just need certain parts replaced in which case iot would be £600 plus vat. So basically I have to be prepared to swallow a bill for £1380 at worst, and anything under that is a bonus.

The guys were very complimentary about the car, and one of them even said to call him if I decided to sell it!.

Some thinking to do, but my initial thoughs are to continue running it as it is, and if I still have it next february, with no further major issues, then I can get it done on the basis the car wont really owe me anything.

Cheers
 
i would say go for it..................:D


If you can do most of the work your self it will save you alot but mercedes parts are not cheap as you probadly will know already.

Neil

That depends how old your car is, parts are cheap for mine from Mercedes, more modern ones still have to pay full price for bits, us oldies get the benefit of Mercs classic car priceing. :D
 
Merc parts generally are a bargain compared to lots of imported marques.

Have a look at some japanese and volvo parts prices.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom