TrafficLine

[JFerguson]

**ITIS traffic information combines incident data and Floating Vehicle Data (FVD), which is then broadcast to compatible satellite navigation systems using national bandwidth via Classic FM, which is licensed exclusively by Ofcom to ITIS until 2012. Manufacturers who have standardised TMC are Bentley, BMW, Ford, Land Rover, Lexus, Mini, Nissan, Porsche, Renault, Saab, Subaru, Toyota, Vauxhall, Volkswagen and Volvo **

It is also the company that Mercedes-Benz have negotiated a contract with for our DVD COMAND systems.

John

Hi John,

I read the announcement that MB contracted with ITIS in January. It is good news that would, I think, allow the COMAND APS Nav system to get traffic updates. I've tried a number of time to get TMC from Classic FM but I just get a "No TMC reception" message. Do you know if something has to be changed or set in the car so that TMC works?

thanks,
John....

 

[Shude]

It will probably require a new navigation disc.

 

[JFerguson]

It will probably require a new navigation disc.

That's a shame, I upgraded to version 4 only a few weeks ago.

 

[glojo]

That's a shame, I upgraded to version 4 only a few weeks ago.

Ouch!!

I am sure Shude is correct and all the information we have points to late summer.

I am also hoping that my estimates on cost will prove to be way over the top?

Regards,
John

Edit:
The COMAND has its own tuner that will automatically lock onto the TMC signal (at present Classic FM)

 

[Mr E]

Hmmm, TMC availability......

I'm corresponding with the After-Sales director at MB.....all I've had so far is confirmation that TMC is not currently available from MB in the W/S211 (thanks - I told you that!) He was trying to find out further details........

I forwarded him both the ITIS and MB press releases from January, plus the link to the MB site where it says that TMC is now available on the Viano.

Yet to get a reply.....................

Good to see that the company keeps it's senior managers in the loop on things - especially those that deal with customer queries and complaints.

 

[Shude]

TMC has been working fine on all models since 1999 in every country except the UK, and the only difference when it starts working is the discs AFAIK.

 

[glojo]

TMC does actually work in this country, but in keeping with good old government policy it has been privatised?? Manufacturers must have a licence to use it.

Mercedes-Benz now have a licence and we just have to sit back and wait for a few lines of programming to be added to DVD's and I suppose CD's and then no doubt sold to us 'end users' at an exorbitant price.

The Resolutions Manager that wrote to me gave a date of 'late summer', but I would not put my shirt on that information.

Any number of vehicle manufacturers in the UK have been selling vehicles with navigation systems that are receiving TMC and also Pioneer the supplier of navigational systems.

The frustrating thing is that if your local area has no TMC warnings, the system will not receive any signal from Classic FM. It appears that your system is defective (that's my excuse anyway)

Good luck with the update,
John

 

[prprandall51]

I have just purchased a new E class with Comand and have found these forums endlessly fascinating. As a result I felt inspired to contribute some (hopefully) useful information on the background to TMC provision since it is a topic that seems to keep coming up. I speak neither as an official expert nor as someone who has access to the latest information, but I did work in the industry and had dealings with TeleAtlas, Navteq, Blaupunkt, ITIS, MB(UK) and DC(AG) on these matters. I should note up front that have revealed nothing confidential from my former activities in the material below so this is 80% of the story. And my final caveats are that as I have been out of the industry for a few years some of this may be out of date, and that the whole story is too big to jot down here so this is only "editied highlights".

Totally independently of the map databases in a navigation system (Navteq, TeleAtlas), each country in Europe has segmented its road network into descrete sections to which pieces of traffic information can be assigned; an example section might be: "the northbound carriageway of the M1 from Junction 5 to Junction 6". Each section is assigned a code to identify it. Of course, it is not difficult to mark-up the TMC segments onto the navigation map data but this is not done as a matter of course (i.e. somebody has to pay for it to be done). Traffic information pertaining to a road section (to a TMC code) is collected using a variety of methods and then it is broadcast inaudibly on the RDS section of an FM station's bandwidth (in Britain, this is done by Classic FM, an almost-nationwide radio station). The TMC messages are received by the Comand unit and used to assess whether the currently active navigation route could be improved upon by diverting onto other roads. To be able to do this, the navigation map data must have the TMC codes on it.

As you know (especially if you've used your Comand unit abroad), the current DVD for Comand (that has pan-European map data and is produced by Nateq) *does* contain TMC codes for most (?) countries in Europe - certainly mine worked in Germany, Austria, Belgium and France. But not Britain. The codes aren't on the the UK map data so there is no dynamic route guidance capability. From a purely technical point, as soon as the codes are made available on the map data, dynamic route guidance will become available.

What appears to be happening at the moment is this: To get the TMC codes onto the UK map data, Mercedes Benz have to buy the right to use the codes from the creator of those codes (the comapny that also collates and broadcasts the traffic data). The creator of those codes is ITIS. ITIS and MB UK appear to have struck a deal (ITIS press-release 5/1/05) and the codes will now appear on the (next?) release of the DVD. At that point in time, dynamic route guidance via TMC will work in this country on the E-Class and other vehicles that use the same DVD.

There was talk of encoding the TMC signals (which is *not* done in mainland Europe) as a mechanism for protecting the copyright holder's traffic information. This may have been done; it would be interesting to know because this would mean that Becker need to amend its software to handle the UK TMC data a bigger task than just incorporating revised map data. Or it may be that the TMC data goes out unencoded and all you need is a map with the TMC codes on it to enable TMC to work. Anyone know?

But why has it taken so long to progress in Britain? And who to complain to or blame? As everyone has noticed, MB drivers all over Europe are benefiting from dynamic routing except the British, though I am aware that some systems now support it. As far as I am aware, the reason for this is that throughout Europe governments realised the value of providing detailed local real-time traffic information to its vehicle users to smooth traffic flows, reduce journey times and provide an overall boost to the economy (think of all those "£10 billion lost per year through traffic chaos" headlines) - except the government of Britain. Within the corridors of power (I am told) somebody decided that if the British driver wanted traffic information they could pay for it at full commercial cost; the government made a (bad) strategic decision to keep out of traffic information. Perhaps its part of their plan to encourage us to use the trains?

Thus, whilst the creation of the TMC codes, the monitoring of traffic and the broadcast of traffic incident and flow data is a government-funded initiative in other countries, in Britian it has had to be a completely privately-funded activity (funded by ITIS, TrafficMaster and others). It is a high-risk business requiring huge investment for long-term returns.

Furthermore, whilst TMC data is carried on a variety of radio stations abroad (I *think* at government cost), it is only broadcast on Classic FM in this country, thus causing problems for single tuner users who have to keep tuned to Classic to collect TMC (E-Class Comand is a dual tuner receiver to overcome this problem). As an aside, I don't think Classic benefit financially from the carriage of TMC data, their RDS-TMC bandwidth was held back by the government and licensed off seperately. It appears that that licence now resides with ITIS. In my opinion the natural place for TMC in Briatin is on the BBC stations (better national coverage) but the BBC (who pioneered RDS and - I suspect - would love to be the carrier for such useful data) found themselves unable to assist in Britain's TMC coverage since it would be deemed a commercial activity and thus in contravention of their charter. And finally on this aside, you are unlikely to see any other radio stations rushing to carry TMC since they see it as a direct competitor to the audible programme (if you've got TMC you no longer need to tune in to your local "Rubbish FM" to hear about the traffic chaos in your area).

So, if MB want to provide us with TMC they have to go and negotiate a contract on our behalf with ITIS. In other countries, they simply get Becker to (get Navteq to) place the publicly available TMC codes onto the navigation disk and make the Comand unit listen out for the publicly broadcast TMC data. Easy to do - and at no cost to the user.

Personally, I am thankful that MB have done the deal with ITIS so that we can reap the benefits later this year (I hope). If anyone baulks at paying for the new disk remember that the extra cost of the disk over and above a non-TMC disk will (mostly?) be the licencing fee paid to ITIS, not profit to MB. Furthermore, ITIS know that you will probably use that disk for years to come so they have to get a good chunk of money out of you up front to fund their traffic information collection activities for all the time you own that disk before you replace it (check out their website www.itisholdings.com to see how they do it). So, whilst I am frustrated by the lack of TMC availability to date I don't hold MB responsible and, in having to pay to get it, I don't hold ITIS responsible, instead I blame the government.

PS: Why don't we get TrafficMaster data in the TMC information? There is only one national TMC channel available at the current time (Classic) and ITIS have got it. There was talk amongst other traffic information suppliers of getting a consortium of local stations together to create nationwide coverage but that fell through because of the worry that the TMC data would rob the local stations of their listeners. ITIS and TrafficMaster are competitors and don't appear to share information. I don't think TrafficMaster are interested in having their data delivered via TMC anyway, since TMC would undermine their proprietary delivery methods and dedicated hardware sales. Tragically, the British motorist with TMC is locked out of TrafficMaster data and we have to rely on ITIS's alernative methods of data collection. I am sure ITIS data will be good (hope so, anyway) but I would sure like my dynamic routing to include TrafficMaster data because it is very comprehensive and entirely flow-based so it is perfect for route calculation. Still, something is better than nothing.

Hope this explains a few gray areas.

 

[Mr E]

Perhaps I should back up a little......

This issue is that I specified COMAND becasue it had TMC as an advertised function. When I had a demonstration vehicle for 3 days (with COMAND) and I couldn't get the TMC function to work, the dealer said that it should do, but they didn't know why (they don't read the manuals and understand all the functions.......so how can they sell it?)

Anyway, car arrives......read manual (TMC not available in all countries). "A-ha," methinks, "TMC is here in the UK, great....". Except that it doesn't.....

Depart on trip to France...."Hey, TMC works!"

Come back - no TMC / Dynamic Route stuff. Track down info on here. Watch progress of one or two contributors who have some ongoing dialogue with DC/MB about this.

Took problem to lease company - who gave me email / mobile details of the Aftersales Director (MB Corporate). What amuses / distresses me is that he appears to know nothing of the new licencing deal or of any TMC issues!!

I've not asked for money back, etc - all I want is the functionality that I've paid for. I'm narked that I've been sold functionality that was not avaliable, and that I'm expected to pay more in order to get it.

It's also interesting to note that all reference to TMC has been removed from the new UK MB website, except for the Viano (and Sprinter, I think). What COMAND system does a Viano use now?

 

[prprandall51]

Sorry, my post wasn't specific to your situation I didn't mean to imply you had no reason for complaint - if I had been misled in the way that you were I would be hacked off, too. I was only trying to provide general info on TMC for forum readers.

Like your situation, despite several requests for information from two dealers, it wasn't until the car arrived that I could confirm it had MP3. And I was sold the Comand and phone on the information that it supported Bluetooth (which it doesn't). Some MB dealers seem to be woefully uninformed about the cars they sell.
Philip

 

[glojo]

I keep getting tempted to start a thread titled 'Guess the Price of the TMC upgrade', but I don't suppose there would be enough interest.

Those that have the latest COMAND, no matter what vehicle, how much would you think the DVD will cost including VAT?

My guess would be £373

John

 

[splang]

I just found this website - as I wanted more info than I could get from the aa website.

Very useful as it is linked through the highways agency and you can see when those pesky roadworks should be complete etc...

The link is for my area but you can of course go anywhere.

Hope it helps...
Steve

http://195.188.249.61/map/browse.cg...Box=on&current=on&vms=on&emap.x=157&emap.y=88