Tricky Import Question

[Sp!ke]

I'll try to keep it simple.

Basically, a brand new Cherokee was bought in Switzerland using a temporary registration as it was going to be exported to Croatia. Car was driven to Croatia with the intent of registering the car locally. Illness then struck the owner and the car has sat in the garage for seven years with 350 Km on the clock and is now obviously completely illegal and not registered anywhere.

The owner of this car is a relative and I have known the car from new so I know the story is genuine. He is too scared to do anything with the car and I am tempted to make a silly offer on it.

The question is, how the hell would I go about registering this car in the UK bearing in mind it has never had any form of registration document?

Anyone?

 

[lotusmark2]

Just a thought off the top of my head but could you not reg it as a Q reg as a vehicle of unknown origin???

 

[Shude]

Just a thought off the top of my head but could you not reg it as a Q reg as a vehicle of unknown origin???

It's not "unknown origin" though is it? It has a perfectly valid engine number and chassis number so it's 100% legit! If the DVLA check with Jeep they will confirm it's identity I suppose.

EDIT: you can also build your own car out of pipecleaners and balsa-wood if you like, as long as it passes the SVA test it can be registered. I'm sure it must be easier for a factory-built car missing some papers.

 

[lotusmark2]

It's not "unknown origin" though is it? It has a perfectly valid engine number and chassis number so it's 100% legit! If the DVLA check with Jeep they will confirm it's identity I suppose.

EDIT: you can also build your own car out of pipecleaners and balsa-wood if you like, as long as it passes the SVA test it can be registered. I'm sure it must be easier for a factory-built car missing some papers.

I would agree Shude, but as a last resort you have the Q plate (will effect the resale value of the car)

 

[Sp!ke]

Getting it here with no paperwork will be the first hurdle..... I was even considering putting any old UK plate on and taking the chance.

 

[Guy]

It's difficult to predict how this will actually pan out Spike. Cars bought for export are usually sold without tax and on temporary plates. If the car is exported, the tax does not become payable; but if it isn't exported, it falls due.

So far so good, the car was exported from Switzeland.

The tax is usually paid on registration to the country of import - in this case Croatia - and if I understand, it hasn't been paid / registered there. In fairness, it hasn't been used there, but who knows what their attitude will be? I don't know how you go about getting it out of Croatia. The risk you take driving it on Swiss plates after all this time may - I don't know - be confiscation or a huge penalty plus the original tax that was due.

Certainly that's the sort of thing that HMCE would do in this country.

I wonder whether Customs & Excise would advise you? Frankly I doubt that that they would, if they felt that any advice might involve any tax due in Croatia being avoided.

The only risk free route looks like getting advice in Croatia. Whether that is better done through the authorities, a lawyer, or a friendly car dealer is a question that probably answers itself.

If I recall correctly, the tax due on import to the UK (on a car where no tax has been paid) would be based on current market value.

It's a cracker of a problem mate. Good luck!

 

[Shude]

Getting it here with no paperwork will be the first hurdle..... I was even considering putting any old UK plate on and taking the chance.

Surely you can drive anything into the UK, someone in our street had foreign plates on a car for years and didn't seem to have any problems! I've heard stories of people registering cars a LONG time after they were bought, one of the MBOA guys has a w126 registered as a new car in like 1993 or something! Might help if you ring up DVLA and ask them

 

[RichardM]

Could you bring it back to the UK on a trailor to avoid any problems?

 

[richy]

To register it here (ie get plates that would stand up to a check) you can register the car with DVLA yourself on the app form, as long as you have the certificate of manufacture, E something or other for Euro manufactured or there's another one for no EU produced, I'll look them up.

Once you have the certificates you can register the car just as a dealer would / has to do to get a V5, there's nothing secret about that.

Armed with a legal UK plate and V5 you can simply bring it in, question of VAT though I think it would be liable at it's current market rate.

You will need papers from Croatian control to "pass through" the border, it's the same with Hungary and all them, you cannot simply turn up with a car trying to get in or out, car rental firms would be able to advise you best as it happens to the Euro rental companies all the time, I done it a few times to Hungary but can't remember the form names.

A lot of bloody hassle though and every time I went through I would always get stopped and searched. I bet you would be stopped with Croatian plates on let alone anything else.

Don't mess with these guys on the border, once in Hungary I was waiting for a friend to come in from Portugal, she only had her Euro ID card on her, Austrians let her out, Hungarians wouldn't let her in ! (required full passport ) She literally stood for two days in no mans land till it was sorted.

 

[jaymanek]

I used tobring back jap imports through ireland. I must have driven over 50 cars back, never with any number plates on. I got stopped once, explained the situation to manchester police and they let me drive home.
Basically when registering the car you need import papers and some form of certificate of registration from former country. You dont have either of thse then it would be q plates i think.

As for getting it back here, i personally would take the risk as you say, but if you dont want to, you can get it shipped back with someone who does this. However you will have to pay import tax, and i you would have to get advise on this.

But im sure you can do it, always a way with these things, even if it means bending the rules.

Jay

 

[Dave Kerr]

You will obviously be bringing it back on a trailer since you will not not be able to insure the car using a UK insurer. I don't know the laws in Switzerland but EU law says you cannot use a forign insurance company. I had this problem when I imported my MB from Holland.

Once the car lands in the UK you can insure it, though you may get problems again because it is not intended for the UK then certain parts may be different, insurers don't like this as it could cost an arm and a leg to repair should it be in an accident.

Apart from all the insurance malarky, you can simply take it for an SVA test, once it has passed this you are OK. You will have to change headlights speedo etc and make sure it meets all relevant UK legislation.

There is a good mag which tells you about how to go about importing cars, it used to be called 'car import guide' I think it is now called 'Car Buyer magazine'. They have their own web site can't remember the name now do a search, drop the editor a line and I'm sure he will give you some advice, he did it for me.

Dave

I'll try to keep it simple.

Basically, a brand new Cherokee was bought in Switzerland using a temporary registration as it was going to be exported to Croatia. Car was driven to Croatia with the intent of registering the car locally. Illness then struck the owner and the car has sat in the garage for seven years with 350 Km on the clock and is now obviously completely illegal and not registered anywhere.

The owner of this car is a relative and I have known the car from new so I know the story is genuine. He is too scared to do anything with the car and I am tempted to make a silly offer on it.

The question is, how the hell would I go about registering this car in the UK bearing in mind it has never had any form of registration document?

Anyone?

 

[Dave Kerr]

Sorry forgot to add that part about the VAT, phone up Dover and speak to them, believe it or not they are really helpful, they will tell you everything you need to know, from how much VAT will be due or if there is import duty due on it, I suspect they will want both.

Dave

It's difficult to predict how this will actually pan out Spike. Cars bought for export are usually sold without tax and on temporary plates. If the car is exported, the tax does not become payable; but if it isn't exported, it falls due.

So far so good, the car was exported from Switzeland.

The tax is usually paid on registration to the country of import - in this case Croatia - and if I understand, it hasn't been paid / registered there. In fairness, it hasn't been used there, but who knows what their attitude will be? I don't know how you go about getting it out of Croatia. The risk you take driving it on Swiss plates after all this time may - I don't know - be confiscation or a huge penalty plus the original tax that was due.

Certainly that's the sort of thing that HMCE would do in this country.

I wonder whether Customs & Excise would advise you? Frankly I doubt that that they would, if they felt that any advice might involve any tax due in Croatia being avoided.

The only risk free route looks like getting advice in Croatia. Whether that is better done through the authorities, a lawyer, or a friendly car dealer is a question that probably answers itself.

If I recall correctly, the tax due on import to the UK (on a car where no tax has been paid) would be based on current market value.

It's a cracker of a problem mate. Good luck!

 

[Dave Kerr]

Not quite that simple, you cannot register a car until it's in the country, I tried that. The local DVLA will likely crawl all over it to get all the details, you will have to present it for inspection. This again is what happened when I imported car and that was from the EU.

Dave

To register it here (ie get plates that would stand up to a check) you can register the car with DVLA yourself on the app form, as long as you have the certificate of manufacture, E something or other for Euro manufactured or there's another one for no EU produced, I'll look them up.

Once you have the certificates you can register the car just as a dealer would / has to do to get a V5, there's nothing secret about that.

Armed with a legal UK plate and V5 you can simply bring it in, question of VAT though I think it would be liable at it's current market rate.

You will need papers from Croatian control to "pass through" the border, it's the same with Hungary and all them, you cannot simply turn up with a car trying to get in or out, car rental firms would be able to advise you best as it happens to the Euro rental companies all the time, I done it a few times to Hungary but can't remember the form names.

A lot of bloody hassle though and every time I went through I would always get stopped and searched. I bet you would be stopped with Croatian plates on let alone anything else.

Don't mess with these guys on the border, once in Hungary I was waiting for a friend to come in from Portugal, she only had her Euro ID card on her, Austrians let her out, Hungarians wouldn't let her in ! (required full passport ) She literally stood for two days in no mans land till it was sorted.

 

[Sp!ke]

You will obviously be bringing it back on a trailer since you will not not be able to insure the car using a UK insurer. I don't know the laws in Switzerland but EU law says you cannot use a forign insurance company. I had this problem when I imported my MB from Holland.

I dunno about the trailer... firstly, the trailer will ensure getting stopped at every boder en route....with rather vague papers. If I was driving it, the Croatian border doesnt wory me as I can 'arrange' for the right person to be on duty ...the only border that might be dodgy is between Slovenia and Austria... but by May this may not be such an issue. After that, its only the UK border which may cause problems but I would be declaring it on arrival anyway wont I? The other thing is that the cherokee isnt a small car... what the h*ll would I tow it with?

Insurance a problem? Never thought about that. I was thinking my "Insured may drive any vehicle with owners permission" clause would cover me for the minimum requirement.

So far as I understand from the thread it seems that I will need proof of date of manufacture and some kind of original registration document to be able to register it here without having to go for a Q plate.

 

[Shude]

So far as I understand from the thread it seems that I will need proof of date of manufacture and some kind of original registration document to be able to register it here without having to go for a Q plate.

I was talking to a guy who has a Marcos, it was a Q-plate because it was of "unknown origin", so many parts had been replaced over a period of time and it had kit-car status. He rang up Marcos and asked them about it, they sent him a legit chassis/body-plaque with the correct chassis number and after he bonded that onto the inside of the FG bodywork the car was legally given a brand new licence plate from the correct era! How scary is that?

 

[Dieselman]

My understanding is that you would have to register the vehicle as a personal import as it is older than 14 days old, but as you should be able to produce the EU certificate of conformity this would mean the car won't be registered as a kit car and won't need to be SVA'd.
If you havn't got the cert. you can obtain another from the manufacturer.

You declare the vehicle at Dover customs and a VAT bill will need to be paid within 14 days, based on the original invoice price, not list price. As the vehicle is now not new maybe you could swing this to be paid against whatever price you buy the vehicle for. Not sure how this would work given that it's unregistered, having said that it could have been for off road use only so no registration needed.

You can definately insure the car by insuring it on the VIN number not a registration number. Most insurance companies will do this but only for a short period.

You could probably obtain some transit plates from Croatia so could simply drive it home then.

 

[Sp!ke]

You seem to know your stuff Dieselman... sounds to me like it might be a goer afterall then.

How well do you think the car will have faired with 350km on the clock in seven years. I'm a little worried there is going to be a number of seized or at least sticky moving parts.

 

[Shude]

How well do you think the car will have faired with 350km on the clock in seven years. I'm a little worried there is going to be a number of seized or at least sticky moving parts.

The brake and other fluids may have partially evapourated, rubber parts may have perished, anything in contact with water or other fluids may have corroded, and it's possible that if there is a drop of water sitting at the bottom of the fuel tank it may have rusted it's way through there as well!

I read a low-mileage, car-storage horror-story in one of the issues of Mercedes Enthusiast a while ago, it detailed all the problems of long-term storage. The one thing the manufacturer didn't plan for the car!

 

[Kinky]

Might be some useful/helpful info here.

http://www.import-car.info

K

 

[Dieselman]

How well do you think the car will have faired with 350km on the clock in seven years. I'm a little worried there is going to be a number of seized or at least sticky moving parts.

Pour a small quantity of diesel into the cylinders, and leave overnight, to free any stuck rings .

The hand brake will probably be siezed on and all fluids should be changed. Don't use synthetic oil!

Turn the engine over by hand for several revolutions, then on the starter for three or four ten second bursts. Do this with the fuel injection disconnected so it doesn't fire up.

If it's petrol you will need some new petrol in the tank and possibly new filters, if it's diesel fill the fuel filter with diesel or injector cleaner then fire up the motor.

It'll smoke a bit to start with but that just adds to the fun.

Once warm give it some hard on/off driving to bed the rings in. This is for real as the cylinder pressure needs to be high to properly bed the rings. Don't let it stand idleing, this causes bore glazing and loss of compression.

Check lights and brakes and high tail it back to blighty.

Change the oil again when home.

Ps. what is it petrol or diesel?