Trumps Beginning of the end

[renault12ts]

"Not only was he elected, he has created an economic boom...
No he hasn't - you're giving him rather a lot of credit for an economic upswing."

I'm not giving him a lot of credit for anything. I'm saying that Americans are saying that he has created an economic boom, during his tenure, from tax changes, and Government actions, which means that he's sat on the cusp of the biggest bull market in American history.


I do NOT approve of the man. All I am saying is that Americans (not the brightest people in the World), not only elected him, but show no particular reason to need to replace him. The Democrats, who fielded Hillary Clinton last time (ROFL) have no obvious candidate to replace him. Elizabeth Warren would be fabulous, but the Democrats have form in this area - so it's unlikely Elizabeth will actually run / win.

The tax changes only effected the very very richest in US society./..but trickle down is not happening to any great extent. "Americans are saying..."...which Americans, none I've heard from.

 

[renault12ts]

A requisite for being a politician, no?

What, like, say, Jo Cox?

 

[Deleted96908]

A classic trait of the psychopath. They create their own “moral framework” that they measure their behaviour against and, guess what? It’s great! Really great!

Everybody creates their own moral framework, but it's the zeitgeist of the day that evaluates whether one's morals are acceptable or not. As Chesterton put it - I may not practice what I preach, but you can be thankful I don't preach what I practice. And it's this gap between what's deemed to be acceptable in public, and what's not, that is narrowing. It seems the grubbier you are, the more real you are. And perhaps it's this demand for reality that's put Trump in power. Earlier in this thread somebody alluded to Trump being Teflon. No he's not. He's the complete opposite. He's the overcooked egg pan and the public, by and large, love it.

 

[Trickythemerc]

I think Trump will finish up either being impeached or bumped off.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

I think Trump will finish up either being impeached or bumped off.

Kind of surprised one or t’other hasn’t already happened.

Re the moral framework, absolutely. Ultimately, if one can sleep at night, that’s probably the final arbiter as everything else follows from that. Legality is flexible of course, and besides, first one has to get caught, then prosecuted.

 

[Yugguy]

Trump happened for the same reason as Brexit. A great swathe of the population who beleived their concerns were being ignored by the elite and wanted to give that elite a very large middle finger.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Trump happened for the same reason as Brexit. A great swathe of the population who beleived their concerns were being ignored by the elite and wanted to give that elite a very large middle finger.

Could be.

I am always wary of knee-jerk decisions though.

 

[Scott_F]

"No they didn't - the last President with this much smelly stuff around him was Nixon."

Have you really forgotten the Clinton sagas? The women he "slept with" during the Inauguration Balls, the allegations of financial impropriety, the "suicide" of Hillary's "colleague," the whole Whitewater saga? The twenty year allegations of groping and inappropriate behaviour with "willing / consenting" Democrat supporters?

Episodes of sexual misbehaviour and lies surrounding them along with allegations of financial impropriety were standard Trump fare long before he stood for office and seemed to do him no harm on the campaign trail. However, his lies about knowing about "hush money" payments from his lawyer (he initially denied knowing anything about them but now says he did know but that it's all fine because the money used was his own) could prove to be as damaging as Clinton's lies during the Lewinsky affair. But there the similarities end.

Trump is mired in allegations over his links to Russia and in moves that are unprecedented he has attempted to use his hire-and-fire mentality to silence those in the judiciary and the FBI who threaten his position. In doing so, he risks not only doing more damage to the office of President of the United States than anyone since Nixon but also risks doing permanent harm to the security services and the office of Attorney General.

So I'm sorry, but this level of sh1t just hasn't happened during any other presidency.

"Have you also forgotten the Million people who marched against Bush and the illegal invasion of iraq?

15 February 2003 anti-war protests - Wikipedia

BBC NEWS | UK | 'Million' march against Iraq

warEfforts to impeach George W. Bush - Wikipedia

The million people to whom you refer were in the UK and they don't have a say in US politics !

Again, protests against unpopular decisions are standard fare and the ant-war protests in the US in 2003 didn't prevent Bush's re-election in 2004.

I'm not giving him a lot of credit for anything. I'm saying that Americans are saying that he has created an economic boom, during his tenure, from tax changes, and Government actions, which means that he's sat on the cusp of the biggest bull market in American history.

His economic and financial policies have benefitted some (mainly big business and the better off) but I doubt that even the most ardent and most stupid Trump supporter would say that he has created an economic boom. I have yet to hear anyone bestow that level of credit upon him since there are many other economic factors at play.

 

[st13phil]

...he has attempted to use his hire-and-fire mentality to silence those in the judiciary and the FBI who threaten his position.

His latest intervention in the Manafort case "he would consider pardoning Manafort" is highly dangerous. Someone needs to take him to one side and give him a serious talking to.

 

[Yugguy]

You should watch the Ed Balls in Trumpland program, very interesting.

Bluecollar America couldn't care less who is attorney general or the FBI director.

They just see their jobs getting safer, more work, more overtime, more money in their pockets. Even if this is created on quicksand, right now their pockets are fuller than they were under Obama.

This is why I think Trump may even get a 2nd term.

 

[MangoMan]

I might not agree with all his opinions/agendas, but he is the most realistic President the States has had since Reagan. he is certainly a lot better than Obama/Clinton/Bush and just about every European Leader, including May!

Personally the best Statesman by far these days is Putin - now there's a Leader!

 

[mattc]

Could be.

I am always wary of knee-jerk decisions though.

Why do you call peoples votes “knee jerk”. The public was given its say on a specific question. Many people have had serious misgivings about the direction of travel of the EU for year and decades even and they said no thank you.

To dismiss people’s votes as knee jerk smacks of a patronising, superior viewpoint and goes to the heart of why Remain lost.

 

[pembssurf]

A great swathe of the population who beleived their concerns were being ignored by the elite and wanted to give that elite a very large middle finger.

So a 2% majority in the case of Brexit, and no popular vote win in the case of Trump. If it hadn’t been for ellectoral college system he would be a non issue right now. But the system is the system and the real power lies with the people, in our constitution anyway.

What all this does demonstrate is that the US system of checks and balances in their system of democracy is built on very shakey foundations.

 

[MangoMan]

Why do you call peoples votes “knee jerk”. The public was given its say on a specific question. Many people have had serious misgivings about the direction of travel of the EU for year and decades even and they said no thank you.

To dismiss people’s votes as knee jerk smacks of a patronising, superior viewpoint and goes to the heart of why Remain lost.

- THANK GOD!!!

 

[pembssurf]

I might not agree with all his opinions/agendas, but he is the most realistic President the States has had since Reagan. he is certainly a lot better than Obama/Clinton/Bush and just about every European Leader, including May!

Personally the best Statesman by far these days is Putin - now there's a Leader!

If you consider people who break and bend the law at will with zero morales and use propaganda to brainwash millions of people for their own personal gain then yes he is realistic.

If you are referring to him being like any other Joe then if that was the case the human race would be extinct already.

 

[Deleted96908]

To dismiss people’s votes as knee jerk smacks of a patronising, superior viewpoint and goes to the heart of why Remain lost.

Winners? Losers? There's neither. At best we are going to see match abandoned due to fog.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Why do you call peoples votes “knee jerk”. The public was given its say on a specific question. Many people have had serious misgivings about the direction of travel of the EU for year and decades even and they said no thank you.

To dismiss people’s votes as knee jerk smacks of a patronising, superior viewpoint and goes to the heart of why Remain lost.

I was thinking more about Trump really but the post that I was responding to was, apparently and I quote, about 'giving the elite a very large middle finger'. That, to my minds, smacks of a knee-jerk reaction.

As regards your personal insults, I'll assume that they were a knee-jerk reaction.

 

[renault12ts]

Why do you call peoples votes “knee jerk”. The public was given its say on a specific question. Many people have had serious misgivings about the direction of travel of the EU for year and decades even and they said no thank you.

To dismiss people’s votes as knee jerk smacks of a patronising, superior viewpoint and goes to the heart of why Remain lost.

In this case however, the patronising, superior viewpoint is correct.

 

[grober]

Trump happened for the same reason as Brexit. A great swathe of the population who beleived their concerns were being ignored by the elite and wanted to give that elite a very large middle finger.

The problem with negative political campaigning, which can be very successful, is that while people end up voting against something, Brussels' bureaucrats/ crooked Hillary / political elites etc they actually fail to vote for anything which frequently leads to a political vacuum, stalemate or in Trumps case a bit of a liability?

 

[pembssurf]

The problem with negative political campaigning, which can be very successful, is that while people end up voting against something, Brussels' bureaucrats/ crooked Hillary / political elites etc they actually fail to vote for anything which frequently leads to a political vacuum, stalemate or in Trumps case a bit of a liability?

Amen to that! Also a typical case of the grass is always greener on the other side. In our case it is now fairly certain that it isn’t or at least it won’t be for the next generation or two.

Simplistic thinking is fine, as are simplistic answers however it all falls apart when you try and you insert simplistic thinking to very complicated issues!