Trumps Beginning of the end

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I’ve watched Nancy Pelosi’s speech a couple of times and noticed that she focussed on Trump’s failure to uphold his oath to defend the constitution.

The first republican to respond barely mentioned the constitution but launched a very vocal defence of how many things Trump had achieved.

After the vote to impeach, the republican senators who broke party ranks pretty much all referred to the oath Trump made when sworn in and how he had broken it. Many of them said that because of their position in congress they were duty bound to uphold and defend the constitution, putting that above all other considerations. Now we’re hearing of death threats against them and the need for increased security measures.

From this side of the pond, Trump appears to have achieved a level of adoration well beyond the office of President and his more fanatical supporters seem to care more about him than their beloved constitution.
 
PhantomF4 said:
From this side of the pond, Trump appears to have achieved a level of adoration well beyond the office of President and his more fanatical supporters seem to care more about him than their beloved constitution.
Click to expand...

I recall during the 2017 GE there were were some very emotional supporters of Mr Corbyn.

The US Constitution is subject to interpretation. So while it may look like some immutable document set in stone it can be subverted as to its true meaning. Same is true of anything from a contracts, laws, promises, manifestos, religious books, and so on.

Add in some 'followers' who are only interested in a given interpretation and use it to reinforce their cause - - combine with some emotion - and then incite ....

I don't think we should be reassured this side of the pond that things are any better. The US is a large country with several times our population - so can pop out more factions.

We had the EUref and Brexit to show the effects of divisions below the national surface veneer.
 
Dryce said:
I recall during the 2017 GE there were were some very emotional supporters of Mr Corbyn.

The US Constitution is subject to interpretation. So while it may look like some immutable document set in stone it can be subverted as to its true meaning. Same is true of anything from a contracts, laws, promises, manifestos, religious books, and so on.

Add in some 'followers' who are only interested in a given interpretation and use it to reinforce their cause - - combine with some emotion - and then incite ....

I don't think we should be reassured this side of the pond that things are any better. The US is a large country with several times our population - so can pop out more factions.

We had the EUref and Brexit to show the effects of divisions below the national surface veneer.
Click to expand...
One senator put it pretty succinctly, “they have to decide whether they were elected here to defend the Constitution or to defend Donald Trump”..
 
Just my tuppence worth.

re Trump's attempted impeachment by the Senate - it strikes me that the USA is damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

If they succeed in impeaching Trump (the very least he deserves in my opinion), that's going to cause months/years of security problems with Republicans/Trump supporters/far right gun-toting loonies (I've spent some time in rural Montana, Idaho. Missouri Arkansas & Georgia).

If they fail, the door's wide open for Mr Teflon/his dynasty/his followers to organise a resurrection for 2024.

Who in their right mind would want Joe Bidon's job right now?
 
The whole thing is becoming like an absurd inverse of an Aaron Sorkin drama...
 
PhantomF4 said:
I’ve watched Nancy Pelosi’s speech a couple of times and noticed that she focussed on Trump’s failure to uphold his oath to defend the constitution.

The first republican to respond barely mentioned the constitution but launched a very vocal defence of how many things Trump had achieved.

After the vote to impeach, the republican senators who broke party ranks pretty much all referred to the oath Trump made when sworn in and how he had broken it. Many of them said that because of their position in congress they were duty bound to uphold and defend the constitution, putting that above all other considerations. Now we’re hearing of death threats against them and the need for increased security measures.

From this side of the pond, Trump appears to have achieved a level of adoration well beyond the office of President and his more fanatical supporters seem to care more about him than their beloved constitution.
Click to expand...

That's not how his supporters see it.

Trump has always used incitement and division as his primary tools. As part of this tactics, he is also positioning himself as the protector of freedoms against a corrupt Democratic cabal. This also fits-in nicely with QAnon, that sees Trump as the protector of Good against Evil.

The Constitution is there to safeguard the freedoms of the American people. To his supporters, what Trump is doing is protecting the Constitution by resisting the Democrats' criminal attempts to oppress the people.
 
The 'chatter' on right-wing message boards is that they are cutting Trump loose after he abandoned them.
 
History tells us that totalitarian regimes almost without fail achieve and maintain power based on a fundamental lie. Get enough people to believe it and democracy disappears. Witness the latest Ugandan elections. The internet was shut down for several days pre and post election-because "foreign powers" --unamed--- were trying to " interfere with the election"- sound familiar*?
www.bbc.co.uk

Uganda elections 2021: Museveni takes lead as Bobi Wine cries foul

Election officials call on challenger Bobi Wine to provide evidence for his vote-rigging allegations.
www.bbc.co.uk

*we can't call a TRUMP-lead USA a " banana republic " quite yet but suitable sobriquets are all welcome
 
I'm not a golfer, but for all those who believe Trump was cheated out of the election

when it comes to cheating - he would know!

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grober said:
History tells us that totalitarian regimes almost without fail achieve and maintain power based on a fundamental lie. Get enough people to believe it and democracy disappears. Witness the latest Ugandan elections. The internet was shut down for several days pre and post election-because "foreign powers" --unamed--- were trying to " interfere with the election"- sound familiar*?
www.bbc.co.uk

Uganda elections 2021: Museveni takes lead as Bobi Wine cries foul

Election officials call on challenger Bobi Wine to provide evidence for his vote-rigging allegations.
www.bbc.co.uk

*we can't call a TRUMP-lead USA a " banana republic " quite yet but suitable sobriquets are all welcome
Click to expand...

True.

And, the fundamental lie that Trump is using to destroy American democracy, is that the Republicans are trying to destroy American democracy..... and that Trump is the true protector of their freedoms.

So those who support Trump's attempt to achieve a Totalitarian dictatorial regime, actually believe in the lie that says that by supporting Trump they are protecting Democracy :doh:
 
The first clue came during his first electoral campaign--when he said he was going to "drain the swamp" and unlike other candidates " he wasn't a politician" while actively running for the most politically powerful position in the US government at the same time ---a total contradiction in terms
 
grober said:
The first clue came during his first electoral campaign--when he said he was going to "drain the swamp" and unlike other candidates " he wasn't a politician" while actively running for the most politically powerful position in the US government at the same time ---a total contradiction in terms
Click to expand...
Politics like nature abhors a vacuum. You drain the swamp of one monster and it is replaced by another.
I think Trump is coming to the realisation that the monster he has empowered, has no further use for him now he is out of office and likely no way back into it.
 
As for the 74m who voted for Trump... it is worth noting that they are not all die-hard Trump supporters.

Some of them would have voted Republican because that's where they are politically, even if they didn't particularly like Trump.

Others voted for Trump because they liked what he had to offer, but will equally move their support to another candidate once Trump is out of the picture.

I don't know what is the actual percentage of die-hard Trump supporters out there, i.e. those who might feel cheated and alienated and disenfranchised etc in the aftermath of the November elections, but the number will be far smaller than the '70m' figure repeatedly quoted by those who try to portray the current situation as worse than it actually is.

If you compare the number of people who attended Obama's inauguration to that of Trump's inauguration, this might give you some useful idea regarding the popularity of the person elected, as opposed to the popularity of the party they represented.
 
The backlash pendulum against the Trump riot swung too far when prosecutors recently claimed that there was an intention to "capture and assassinate" elected officials. Even though that claim has now been rescinded, it suggested a degree of organisation and intent on the part of the rioters that wasn't apparent to me in the TV footage. I think the insightful article below is a more realistic view of what really happened and sums up Trumps four years nicely. It's not as I first thought anything to do with Trumps eyesight.

The spectre of Trump’s spectacles
 
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