TV Refresh Rates - CRT vs New Technology

[Sooty_uk]

know you lot are quite technical so I wanted to ask a question.

I had an old Toshiba 36" CRT TV which I got in 2002 and was over £1,300 back in the day. The TV has gone faulty and I have a Domestic & General product replacement warranty (new for old). Now I am not expecting them to give me another £1,300 TV however I want something that is at least the same spec as my old one.
They no longer make 36" TV's so they offered me a 40" Toshiba LED TV.

Now my argument was that the refresh rate on the new TV is 50 Hz and my old CRT was 100 Hz.
All I wanted was the price to be compared to a Toshiba TV above 36" that has a 100 Hz refresh rate.

Now they are telling me that the refresh rate on a CRT does not compare to the refresh rate on a new modern TV. They are saying that even a 50 Hz LED will be better than a CRT at 100 Hz.
They said that "refresh rates" did not exist on CRT TV and the Hz referred to something else (I cant remember the term they used however it was the same as refresh rate). They started explaining about the technology behind how it all works. In my eyes the refresh rate is the rate of the motion of the picture so they are comparable even though it is a different technology being used.

Am I right and should I still demand a 100 Hz TV as a minimum?

Thanks

 

[DSM10000]

I believe that the quality of the on board video processor is more important to de-blur and de-judder the signal (a number of earlier models achieved their high refresh rate simply by inserting black frames in between the video frames). To do it right, sophisticated interpolation algorithms and suitably powerful processor chips are required to properly create new artifact-free inter-frames.

There are countless review sites that will give you unbiased comparison information.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Almost any telly now (as long as its not a budget range one) will look a world away from your CRT. + you gain an extra Metre square of living space in your house

 

[grober]

Refresh rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While I don't think a 50hz LCD will pose a problem in terms of refresh rates as the 2 technologies are very different, as has been said its the picture processing and screen backlighting technology that are more important. As a general rule though high end LCD TV models tend to publish higher screen refresh rates and although not comparable technology the figure may be an indication you are being pawned off with a set with " vintage" electronics. Such are the advances in picture processing that anything with more than a 1-2 year old design is regarded as old technology. [ NOTICE NOT NECESSARY RELIABILITY AS THERE CAN BE A PRICE TO PAY FOR BEING THE NEW KID ON THE BLOCK!] 40" is de rigueur the size most people buy now so that's probably OK. but without knowing exactly the Toshiba model [ Still mainly UK made I believe??] its difficult to say how old the design might be?

 

[finisterre]

The regza's got great reviews last year so even if the tv is not the latest it is probably pretty good.

 

[grober]

I had a quick look at Toshiba's website and as far as I can see the only 50hz set was the BL702B
Toshiba 40BL702B review | Plasma and lcd tvs Reviews | TechRadar

This is not what I would consider as a "mid range set" by today's standards but rather an economy model. Sort of things I would also be looking for in a mid range set apart from reasonable up to date picture processing would be basic internet connectivity and some facility to link easily to digital hand held devices- pretty much par for the course for mid range sets nowadays. The BL 702B doesn't offer these facilities and I suspect neither will the set the poster has been offered.
Really its down to what the poster is expecting for the premiums he paid over the years- if it was a premium reflecting the purchase price of his old set then I think a mid range "reasonably current" technology set fits the bill rather than an older design basic spec economy model. However he is the only one able to judge?

 

[finisterre]

If that is the telly then I would want an upgrade. If I was the OP I would suggest that a one box solution is required. Inbuilt freesat would be good. I really hate having the room littered with remote controls. Tidy is good. Maybe ask for a set of options?

 

[Piff]

Don't know the tech side, but I'm sure the last CRT tv we had was 100hz and when we bought the current Panasonic 42" plasma it was advertised as having 600hz

 

[finisterre]

Mine too. I suspect it is snake oil though. Eyes can only catch so much.

 

[Paul/]

I think the source material (broadcasts or DVD) is only at 50 frames per second (PAL standards) - and, if it's film, the original usually 24 frames per second. Games machines/PC probably refresh faster, but then if most movies are shot at 24 fps what is the visual benefit of faster refresh? It mattered on a CRT as the image faded as the gun illuminated each pixel in turn- but on LCD or LED screens, I assume that each pixel is always "on" regardless of refresh rate.

 

[MOCAŠ]

Don't know the tech side, but I'm sure the last CRT tv we had was 100hz and when we bought the current Panasonic 42" plasma it was advertised as having 600hz

From the Richer Sounds website:

Manufacturers now use their own measurements so can not necessarily be compared between brands. Examples include LG - Motion Clarity Index (MCI), Samsung - Clear Motion rate (CMR), Philips - Perfect Motion Rate (PMR), Sony - Motionflow XR and Panasonic - BLS (Back Light Scanning). All these figures are twice or more than the traditional 100Hz/200Hz refresh rate figures. No abbreviation indicates traditional measurement. Plasmas generally use a 600Hz sub-field refresh rate.

 

[Sooty_uk]

Thanks for all your replies.

Basically it's my parents TV and I believe they been paying £8 a month since 2001 for the warranty! Absolute waste of money if you ask me.

I spoke to my friend who is a technician at B&O and he said that the picture on the LCD will be better than the CRT however due to principle the refresh rate is still half of what the old one was. D&G's argument was that the refresh rates can't be compared as the two technologies are totally different. I agree that the technology is different but the measurement of refresh rate is still the same.

I guess it's like BHP on a car. You car might be standard, fuel injected or have a turbo but the output measurement is still comparable.

To be honest they are offering a £300 Toshiba and I have seen a 100Hz LED Toshiba one for £500 and want the difference. They will be sending me an Argos voucher which I will use to buy a higher end TV and pay the difference myself.

 

[grober]

Thanks for all your replies.

Basically it's my parents TV and I believe they been paying £8 a month since 2001 for the warranty! Absolute waste of money if you ask me.

I spoke to my friend who is a technician at B&O and he said that the picture on the LCD will be better than the CRT however due to principle the refresh rate is still half of what the old one was. D&G's argument was that the refresh rates can't be compared as the two technologies are totally different. I agree that the technology is different but the measurement of refresh rate is still the same.

I guess it's like BHP on a car. You car might be standard, fuel injected or have a turbo but the output measurement is still comparable.

To be honest they are offering a £300 Toshiba and I have seen a 100Hz LED Toshiba one for £500 and want the difference. They will be sending me an Argos voucher which I will use to buy a higher end TV and pay the difference myself.

That's scandalous frankly. I think you are wise to take the voucher . At least then you can make sure you chose the set you want even if you pay a bit more. To be honest I would be asking for hard cash - ARGOS are neither very competitive on price or on specifications IMHO but better than nothing I guess. Those Argos SMART VIERA Panasonics don't look too bad

 

[Watchcame430]

They are definately unrelated between the new technologies as has been mentioned.
Recent years has seen a lot of marketing spin relating to refresh rates. I work for an electronics manufacturer and sold Tvs for a long time so understand your position well.
I recommend checking out the likes of What hi fi magazine for some reviews.
Tvs have so many variables like screen quality, various processor speeds, back lighting type etc etc
Also check out the sound .. A lot of them are horrendous as the thin bezzle no longer allows enough space for decent speakers.
Good luck!

 

[grumpyoldgit]

I don't understand the bumph myself but my old Philips 28" Match-Line (still working) cost £1250 many years ago and has Dolby Surround Pro-Logic and IDTV 100Hz Digital Scan.

My 4 year old Panasonic Viera 37" LCD has 100Hz motion picture pro and cost £740.
Brilliant picture quality, but the sound quality is no match for the old Philips, without the addition of a Home Cinema set-up.

Both 100Hz. But as I say I don't understand.



They certainly aren't honouring new for old is your case.

 

[gIzzE]

50hz was interlaced, so 25 odd lines and then 25 even lines a second.

Modern displays are progressive, so show all the image at once, but twice the speed.


Really is a non issue, my main concern would be the fact it is LCD.
If you like a crt image a plasma is far better, it is a phosphor based display like a CRT, a little softer than an LCD but so much nicer overall.

 

[bolide]

Also check out the sound .. A lot of them are horrendous as the thin bezzle no longer allows enough space for decent speakers.

Agree 100%. Old TVs had a nice whoomphy bass end and diabolical treble (from one paper-coned speaker) whereas new ones have horrible screechy treble and no bass at all. Best thing to do is to take the audio out and feed it via the HiFi - it makes TV more bearable and adds a lot to films

Nick Froome

 

[Charles Morgan]

My very thin LED tv has lousy sound and is rattling against the wall. Given I have my hi-fi right by it, how do I achieve what you suggest Nick?

 

[The _Don]

My very thin LED tv has lousy sound and is rattling against the wall. Given I have my hi-fi right by it, how do I achieve what you suggest Nick?

Depends on the connections on tv,you will either need a phono to phono lead or a co-ax or optical lead.

Sent from my iPad using MBClub UK

 

[grober]

My very thin LED tv has lousy sound and is rattling against the wall. Given I have my hi-fi right by it, how do I achieve what you suggest Nick?

Post up your make and model tv and hi fi amp and someone will tell you. Will depend on the sound outputs from the TV and any vacant inputs on your Hi FI amp. Easiest when both are of roughly the same age but there are "converter "boxes that can help Close proximity is a bonus.