TVR Griffith 500.........or not?

[BearFace]

I've been offered a 1995 TVR Griffith 500 with 22k miles and a full TVR history. It's Metallic Black with Oxblood leather and in mint condition. The current owner bought the car brand new and he's a mate of my dad's, so I know the car is genuine and has been looked after. It recently had a full service, during which the clutch was replaced, along with brake discs and pads all around and an entirely new exhaust system. It's a lovely, lovely car and I can own it for £13,500, although I'll be sleeping in the spare room for a while if I do...

Had a test drive this evening and I'm still speechless. The car has no PAS or ABS (or even an airbag...), and initially you're stunned at the force required to turn the wheel. However when things get moving, the wheel becomes alive and communicative, which really makes the thing feel like a go-cart; a feeling heightened by the fact that this car weighs 940kg (the same as an old MG Metro....) and has 340BHP. You wouldn't believe how quick this car is.........and the sound

When I pulled up and tried to get out, I couldn't because the door pulls are concealed in the footwells, on the side of the transmission tunnel. It took me a good five minutes to locate it, although I pretended to the owner (who was stood in my garden, watching...) that I was just "looking around...".

Anyway, I checked the insurance and on a restricted mileage policy the premium came out at just over £800. The only real issues I have now are that (a)the money I'll be using had been set aside for home improvements and my girlfriend is threatening to pack her bags if I buy the TVR......and (b)that I'll have to sell the old 7-series, because with the Merc and the girfriend's car, there'll be no more room to park it on our property. Still, this is a TVR and you're only 37 once...

Right, I'm off to clear a path into the spare room. In the meantime, if there's anyone with any relevant TVR knowledge or experience, please post your thoughts. I'm going to buy the car in any case (writing this has done the trick), but any advice will be most helpful - thanks

 

[Kinky]

BF,

Firstly with regards to insurance - I'd suggest you give both Sunninghill and A-Plan a call - I reckon you'll be pleasantly suprised.

Sunninghill always came up out tops for me, but A-Plan are doing a kind of deal on Pistonheads at the moment - so worth calling them.

As for the car itself .... no brainer, and the price is pretty much bang on.

That said though, if you were looking at a Griff 500 - there's plenty about - slightly higher mileages - same age (some newer) for about £2k cheaper. You could use this as a bargaining point, as this was the early days for the 500

I'd check out the PH Griff classifieds here - just to compare what's on offer 'out there': http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?p=1&s=3

I'd also ask in the Griff forum: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?f=9&h=0

But bottom line - just do it :bannana:

K

 

[BearFace]

BF,

Firstly with regards to insurance - I'd suggest you give both Sunninghill and A-Plan a call - I reckon you'll be pleasantly suprised.

Sunninghill always came up out tops for me, but A-Plan are doing a kind of deal on Pistonheads at the moment - so worth calling them.

As for the car itself .... no brainer, and the price is pretty much bang on.

That said though, if you were looking at a Griff 500 - there's plenty about - slightly higher mileages - same age (some newer) for about £2k cheaper. You could use this as a bargaining point, as this was the early days for the 500

I'd check out the PH Griff classifieds here - just to compare what's on offer 'out there': http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?p=1&s=3

I'd also ask in the Griff forum: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?f=9&h=0

But bottom line - just do it :bannana:

K

Great advice and links - thanks

The 500 was around in '94 because I've seen them for sale on 'L' plates (this one's an 'N'), but I haven't seen any with such low mileage. I think one-owner cars are a rarity too, but I'll do some research before I part with the cash - I have until Monday to give him my decision...

 

[GazCaff]

iirc the Griffith 500 was the last hurrah for the Rover/Buick V8 sourced engines and was their most powerful incarnation. That car is already a classic imo.

 

[Kinky]

BF,

If you can make it down to Warwickshire next weekend, the 'Griff Growl' event is on - basically Griff owners weekend GTG.

It's a weekend-long event and pretty full - but might be worth popping down and chatting to the folks and seeing their cars, etc.

K

 

[JonLittlechild]

Two stories to relate.

1) I had a friend who had owned a Testorrossa, a 500 Griff and when I knew him a 911 GT3. His opinions were as follows: The Testorrossa was rubbish, the TVR will kill you and the Porsche was a good compromise.

2) I have a client who is a seriously talented rally driver and has dabbled in both FRenault V6 and historic F1 cars. He took a Griff out for a test drive on a damp day (the dealership allowed it because they knew him well and of his racing exploits). With the salesman sat next to him, he promply spun it at the first roundabout. He confessed that he barely touched the throttle and the thing went round so fast there was nothing he could do.

So, in conclusion... it's probably a good job that it's good Oxblood coloured seats because it's gonna kill you.

Get a Caterham or something similar instead. More communicative, just as fast, similar reliability, cheaper to run and less leathal.

Jon

 

[R2D2]

They are lovely but I have to agree with Jon. I nearly spun a griffith in the dry coming off a roundabout. You know how bad Mercs and BMs are if you turn the traction/ESP off well the TVR is 10 times worse. I wouldnt want to drive one every day even in the summer but in the winter be afraid.........

The car is great fun, very fast, very loud but very dangerous in anything but a straight line and has zero safety equipment.

 

[Doodle]

Agreed on most of the above - tremendous performance, a noise like Thor approaching on a thunderstorm, epic unreliability, and it probably will kill you.

Mum looked at one before getting the SL. She loved the performance and the noise, but the clutch was just too heavy, and even with her limited mileage, it was just too unreliable.

 

[R2D2]

Cheap on fuel though. Drive there..........towed back

 

[i_york]

This isn't directly related to the Griffith, but I thought I'd share my experience with a TVR Cerbera, as it gave me a taste of the whole TVR experience.

I test-drove a Cerbera 4.2 just before I put my C5 Corvette up for sale. I had high expectations of the Cerbera, but was immediately let-down when I walked up to it and noticed the poor fit and finish. It really had a 'kit car' appearance to it. The interior was nice, but the overall build-quality was very sub-par. However, the test drive, of course, was fantastic. The noise from the flat-plane cranked AJP V8 wasn't quite as mean as my Corvette (with Borla Stinger exhaust), but the straight-line acceleration and responsiveness was very impressive. Also, that engine is very rev-happy and I found myself changing-up at least 1,000rpm too early on several occasions simply because you don't expect a 4.2 V8 to spin to 7,000rpm! The Cerbie has an intoxicating 'point and squirt' feel to it. When the test drive was over, I climbed out the car and was greeted by the lovely odour of hot brakes, rubber and engine

If you're planning on having the Griff as an everyday car, I'd think very carefully. However, if it's going to be a second car / weekend toy, I'd say go for it. By the way, have you considered an AC Cobra 427 replica as an alternative? You can get a very nice one for around £18k with a small-block Chevy or Ford V8. IMO, the ultimate muscle car.

Cheers,
Ian.

 

[Thmsshaun]

Go for it. Like you say you are only 37 once. But then you have already made up your mind. Sorry I can offer no other advice.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

I've been offered a 1995 TVR Griffith 500 with 22k miles and a full TVR history. It's Metallic Black with Oxblood leather and in mint condition. The current owner bought the car brand new and he's a mate of my dad's, so I know the car is genuine and has been looked after. It recently had a full service, during which the clutch was replaced, along with brake discs and pads all around and an entirely new exhaust system. It's a lovely, lovely car and I can own it for £13,500, although I'll be sleeping in the spare room for a while if I do...

That seems remarkably cheap for a 500.

I used to own a Chimaera 400, 1994 vintage. It was an awesome car, but even though it had been looked after there were still significant bills involved. I'll try and summarise what you should do:

1) Condition

The bodywork and interior are important, but not as much as the chassis. Open the bonnet and look near the exhaust manifolds at the front. You can see square chassis rails. These should be perfect - no rust whatsoever. The original powder coating may be lifting in places, but as long as its been treated to stop rust, thats ok. You also need to jack the car up (or put it on ramps) and look underneath. Pay particular attention to the chassis outriggers and suspension. The outriggers run directly underneath the doors, for the length of the car between front and rear wheels. At each corner, they take a 90 degree turn towards the centre of the car. These outriggers are prone to rusting from the top of the tubes downwards. The only way to tell is to remove the body of the car (a big job). If all visible elements of the chassis look good, free of rust or repairs, then chances are the tops of the outriggers will be ok. However, eventually in the car's lifetime the body will need to come off, and they'll have to be checked. It could be 10 years from now, or 10 months from now. It depends on your view of the car, how long you want to keep it.

2) Service history

It must have a completely full and impeccable service history. Each service card is also sent to the factory in Blackpool, so you should call them and double check that. The factory should know the history of the vehicle. If they don't - alarm bells. You can do minor work yourself, but the services require specialised knowledge. You cannot service these cars yourself - the services are long and detailed. A small service is 6k, and should cost a basic £300 at an indie. A big service is 12k, and expect £550-£650. Those figures do not include the cost of components which likely will want changing. The cam (only 1 on the V8) is around £1000 to replace, that normally goes somewhere after 50000 miles.

3) Buy with your head, not your heart.

Do not buy this car before you have looked at others. I cannot stress this point enough. The cars are so awesome, you'll fall in love with the first one you see. This one may be excellent, or merely average - but until you see other examples, you will have no idea what to expect.

DO NOT BUY THIS CAR WITHOUT LOOKING AROUND

Ok?

4) Driving

It will kill you the first chance you give it. You're likely used to cars with traction control, wallowy suspension, abs etc. This car has none of that. The only traction control is the person driving it. If you lose it on a bend, only you can get it back. That said, they handle extremely well. People usually crash them because they've pushed them too hard in poor conditions or dodgy camber.

5) Safety

They're very strong cars. The Cerbera is one of the only cars to do a full frontal impact test and drive away from it. However, the Griffith and Chimaera have zero side impact protection. The only thing that helps is the chassis outrigger, which is too low to prevent somebody's engine bay from entering the side of your car. Basically, if you get T-boned by anything at speed, chances are you're dead. The doors contain GRP, carpet, and fresh air - thats it. Front and rear the cars are very very strong though. Oh, and theres no roll protection - if you roll it, your head will get squished.

6) Security

Immobilsor and alarm, but the cars are incredibly easy to get into via the design of the soft-top. I won't tell you how, but trust me its easy. Saying that, nobody steals TVRs of this vintage because there isn't a market for them, and they stick out like a sore thumb (a very pretty thumb though)



Regarding the insurance, its specialised sports insurance companies all the way. Forget the major companies, they won't get near the specialists.

The best TVR community on the web can be found at http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/forum.asp?f=9&h=0

There is a sizeable TVR bunch of people on there, a special forum for Grifs and Chimaeras, and you need to post your question word for word in there. They'll be able to recommend an independant specialist (DO NOT USE A DEALER ITS DOUBLE THE COST), you'll be able to find a 'buddy' who will look at the car for you for a pint or two, and you never know, someone else may actually know the car. Also, they have the best classifieds for TVRs ever:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=3

Theres also the TVR car club: http://www.tvr-car-club.co.uk/

The TVRCC also have a classifieds section.


This is a big decision. The car will have you grinning from ear to ear every time you drive it - and I'm not kidding. They're utterly gorgeous cars in every way. But it may be a very expensive proposition, and you should factor £2000 a year in possible service costs, a slush fund if you like.

Do your research (using pistonheads), and if you buy one - get ready for the best car you'll ever own.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Great advice and links - thanks

The 500 was around in '94 because I've seen them for sale on 'L' plates (this one's an 'N'), but I haven't seen any with such low mileage. I think one-owner cars are a rarity too, but I'll do some research before I part with the cash - I have until Monday to give him my decision...

Low mileage is not an indicator of quality - it is an indicator of lack of use.

These cars need to be used regularly, so watch out

 

[glojo]

You know the car, you know its history, you know of the repution they have.

You like it, you can afford it, you want it....

Go for it, you will never forgive yourself if you turn it down.

Good luck, and be careful
Regards,
John

 

[andy_cyp]

If your girlfriend moves out because of this, could you possibly post a pic of her and a mobile number please mate .

Andy

 

[timmy]

If your girlfriend moves out because of this, could you possibly post a pic of her and a mobile number please mate .

Andy

PMSL at that one.

So will you miss her when she's gone. Get the bloody thing. If I had my time over again and could afford it, I would do the same. Reminds me of the MGB GT V8 that I bought without telling my, then, first wife. :bannana:

 

[scumbag]

cant be bothered for a long rant.

live young, die fast. live old, die bored! Live TVR, live life, die happy!

go buy it and smile. fab car, one of my fav's

it will break down and cost money, who cares?

 

[stats007]

Low mileage is not an indicator of quality - it is an indicator of lack of use.

These cars need to be used regularly, so watch out

Very true. 22k seems too low to me. Also bhp figures vary wildly with these engines - usually they are much lower than quoted - however there is still enough grunt to kill you if you're not used to these types of cars. I had a Cerbera 4.5 which gave you a workout driving it but worth every fume related (and lack of aircon) headache!

TVRs are unreliable and will cause you trouble but if you're smitten with them there's little you can do!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

It sounds like an opportunity that seldom arises - low mileage, one owner, and one that you know. Presumably he won't sell you a dog - if you had a car with any potential problems would you sell it to a friend of the family without mentioning? I wouldn't, and I doubt many would.

If I could afford it, and providing the wife would only go quiet for a few days then I'd have a punt. Maybe not worth a divorce over though!!

Whether you go for it or not - I reckon it will be the right thing to do.

 

[SEM]

One of very few pleasures i've had behind a proper sports car, it's fun and very irratic, very very tail happy from my track days. But if you want to drive 350bhp like you should then you may not see your 38th Birthday... !!!