Two Police officers killed.

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...and I read the last poll of (forget how many) police officers, 82% preferred not to be armed.

I'm not sure where I stand on it because if scum knew cops were armed, maybe they would be more likely to be armed themselves.

Not wishing to turn this thread into a debate on it mind - that last comment is not intending to encourage a debate - just my thinking out loud.

Edit: Look up SO19, golden1245...
 
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golden1245 said:
I heard all police in the UK don't carry guns...do you guys think that would have made a difference if the officers had their pistols drawn while initially responding to the burgulary? It looked to be an empty worn down house, why would someone break into something like that? It seemed fishy from the start. Police in the United States draw their guns at anything suspicious, even when they pull over beat up looking cars over on the highway.
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There is a kind of pact, unofficial, unspoken, that the good guys don't carry guns, and the bad guys mostly reciprocate. There are, of course, exceptions.

The result is very few police or criminals (or innocents) are shot, relative to the US.

It is a cultural thing, though. The Swiss are armed to the teeth, but shoot almost no one.
 
Yeah, the "pact" was something that my cousin, who lives in the UK (Birmingham), told me. He also said police there are trained to build rapport with perpatrators/talk to them and are more skilled in hand to hand combat. Whereas in the United States, one will pull out a pistol and their partner, a shot gun and start screaming at someone to "get the **** down right now!" I'm sure incidences like these don't happen much over in the UK compared to the United States. I know this case was an exception because that man really was deranged, and it's very unfortunate. My heart goes out to the two female officers.

But overall, due to strict gun laws in England, it is much more peaceful over there compared to the USA. I do recognize that.
 
This is a very sad but rare incident.

And yes it will probably draw attention to the issue of arming police officers yet again.

But the question is what is the overall benefit of arming the police, it is really not something that should be decided-on based on one (very tragic) event.

And yes we have Armed Police units in every area, they are called upon when officers have reason to believe that they might be needed.

From http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom :

'In the year 2007-08, there were 6,780 Authorised Firearms Officers, 21,181 police operations in which firearms were authorised throughout England and Wales and 7 incidents where conventional firearms were used.'

Not a bad result then - seems to be working well for us.
 
Colin_b said:
The Swiss are armed to the teeth, but shoot almost no one.
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Sorry but where does the evidence to support this argument come from?
 
As has been said, a sad and tragic incident - especially for the families of those involved. However, the fact that it is headline national news, and that this thread has been started about it, serves to underline just how rare an occurrence it is in this country. Reports say that this is the worst such incident to have happened here in almost forty years, and one of the worst ever.

Any such incident is bound to re-open the debate on routinely arming our police, but it would of course be the wrong to reach any conclusion on the basis of a single event. It is reported that a grenade was also thrown at these two officers - yet no-one is suggesting that the police should carry grenades. Fighting fire with fire is rarely an effective solution.
 
golden1245 said:
I heard all police in the UK don't carry guns...do you guys think that would have made a difference if the officers had their pistols drawn while initially responding to the burgulary? It looked to be an empty worn down house, why would someone break into something like that? It seemed fishy from the start. Police in the United States draw their guns at anything suspicious, even when they pull over beat up looking cars over on the highway.
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Police in GB are not routinely armed, but police in NI are.
 
Can you credit it?

One day we are told Dale Cregan is the most wanted man in the UK; and now today, we are told he was out on bail!

No doubt the do-gooder "human rights" lawyers will be queuing to represent him, and whatever the outcome, it will cost us, the taxpayer a small fortune.

It`s not the law that is an ass; it`s the public.
 
Dichtung said:
Can you credit it?

One day we are told Dale Cregan is the most wanted man in the UK; and now today, we are told he was out on bail!

No doubt the do-gooder "human rights" lawyers will be queuing to represent him, and whatever the outcome, it will cost us, the taxpayer a small fortune.

It`s not the law that is an ass; it`s the public.
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Obviously there is doubt as to whether he did it...otherwise he would not have got bail...or should we lock him up for good...no questions asked? He handed himself in...it was us that assumed he shot the young ladies.
 
Roid rage--- again?

Having examined the the photographs of the 2 people murdered earlier in the year, Dave and Mark Short Gangland | MAFIA TODAY the present suspect Dale Cregan and the late but not lamented Raol Moat they all have the characteristic appearance of people who regularly abuse anabolic steroids. Presumably they find this useful in their role as "enforcers" for drug gangs. An unfortunate side effect of these drugs is " roid rage" Psychiatric and psychologic complications include manic behavior and psychosis including hallucinations and delusions. Aggressive and unpredicable behavior is very common. Perhaps we should be actively addressing more closely the links between violent crime and steroid abuse in the criminal community. As far as I know steroids are still category C :dk: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1300/article/2/made
 
renault12ts said:
Obviously there is doubt as to whether he did it...otherwise he would not have got bail...or should we lock him up for good...no questions asked? He handed himself in...it was us that assumed he shot the young ladies.
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Ignore the above...typed too fast thought too slow.
 
Honour by Darwin Blake 18.9.2012

You stand in line.
Give it all.
Bitter words and fists are thrown.
Such evil looks.
You get each day.
Calm and cool.
They grind you down.
If you fight back.
Then you are the fiend.
Dictated on by high above.
You face each day not knowing when.
Their fists and knives and bullets come.
Get praise when great.
But not enough.
You deserve it all.
For what you do.
Protect us all.
From harm and hate.
But still nothing gained.
But still they hate.
Justice is blind.
Or so they say.
I’m sorry you fell.
On this dark day.
 
grober said:
Having examined the the photographs of the 2 people murdered earlier in the year, Dave and Mark Short Gangland | MAFIA TODAY the present suspect Dale Cregan and the late but not lamented Raol Moat they all have the characteristic appearance of people who regularly abuse anabolic steroids. Presumably they find this useful in their role as "enforcers" for drug gangs. An unfortunate side effect of these drugs is " roid rage" Psychiatric and psychologic complications include manic behavior and psychosis including hallucinations and delusions. Aggressive and unpredicable behavior is very common. Perhaps we should be actively addressing more closely the links between violent crime and steroid abuse in the criminal community. As far as I know steroids are still category C :dk: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1300/article/2/made
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Sorry but that is a load of rubbish there is no such thing as "steroid rage" most if not all bodybuilers around the world use steroids.
 
cl55 amg said:
Sorry but that is a load of rubbish there is no such thing as "steroid rage" most if not all bodybuilers around the world use steroids.
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I don't believe it is just steroids. I'd imagine there would have to be some undelying issues as well - as otherwise there would be a lot of angry murderers given how many body builders probably use them...
 
Rob77 said:
Sorry but where does the evidence to support this argument come from?
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This do?

"Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a peoples' militia to defend their country. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training.

The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations."

Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
My deepest sympathy goes out to the family and friends of the two policewomen who were murdered. There is no justification for this, or any kind of violence.

It seems like only last week when the nation was equally shocked by the actions of certain South Yorkshire police personnel during and subsequent to the Hillsborough tragedy.

Who would want to join the police force in this day and age? Can't do right for doing wrong.
 
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