Two Speeding Tickets...Guilty or not ?

[petef]

I recently received two speeding tickets in the notorious district of North Wales. As my wife and I both drive each others vehicles we could not remember who was driving on the days the speeding offences were committed . The route is taken by both of us on our daily commute.

My wife wrote a letter explaining this fact, and stated that as we both could not agree who was driving the vehicle on the particular days identified, we were however both prepared to pay for one offence each. Unfortunately we did not know which name to put on the form for the relevant dates and wrote asking for advice.

We then got a letter back stating that we would have to attend court and explain this. We were advised we would receive a summons in due course.......that was four weeks ago ?....will be interesting to know what happens.

 

[hawk20]

I recently received two speeding tickets in the notorious district of North Wales. As my wife and I both drive each others vehicles we could not remember who was driving on the days the speeding offences were committed . The route is taken by both of us on our daily commute.

My wife wrote a letter explaining this fact, and stated that as we both could not agree who was driving the vehicle on the particular days identified, we were however both prepared to pay for one offence each. Unfortunately we did not know which name to put on the form for the relevant dates and wrote asking for advice.

We then got a letter back stating that we would have to attend court and explain this. We were advised we would receive a summons in due course.......that was four weeks ago ?....will be interesting to know what happens.

Yes; please keep us posted. My wife and I regularly share the driving as we both love to drive. Surely we cannot be expected to keep time sheets can we?

 

[aka$h]

Yes; please keep us posted. My wife and I regularly share the driving as we both love to drive. Surely we cannot be expected to keep time sheets can we?

As far as I know, businesses have to keep a time sheet, but this is not the case for private vehicles.

 

[MangoMan]

I have heard that it can take upwards of 6 months to receive a summons, if at all.

 

[timskemp]

I have heard that it can take upwards of 6 months to receive a summons, if at all.

6 mths plus a few days allowed for postage - I've had them arrive on the last day before now.

 

[comports]

Hi Guys,

What were the dates of the alleged offences and the delay in letting you know. I thought they had 3 months to issue the ticket and after that cannot realistically expect one to remember who was driving and therefore not proove who it was.

 

[SG CL500]

When you're nabbed by a camera (as oppsoed to being pulled over by a policeman) they have 14 days to issue a NIP. Not sure if there's a time limit on summons or if you're pulled over.

 

[imadoofus]

we were however both prepared to pay for one offence each.

Well why not just own up to one offence each then?

 

[andy_k]

Could you honestly stand up in court under oath and say that you can't remember who was driving a car on a certain day within the last fortnight ?

I find it quite incredible that someone as forgetful as this manages to function on a daily basis.

Or is it just possible that you are hoping to find a loophole?

Andy

 

[recycled]

Well why not just own up to one offence each then?

the problem is that if you just own up, you could be liable to perjury if you cannot genuinely remember who was driving and get the dates mixed up. This is clearly stated on the NIP that if you tell any lies e.t.c it could be worse.

Why do you not just ask for video evidence to identify the driver. that way they know you are genuinely trying to help.
Chances are they will not have the driver if it is a rear camera.
I have a friend who is still waiting for her video evidence and thay have not got back to her in six weeks now.

 

[wobbly]

A few years ago, I got a NIP from North Wales, it is in a area I do not know.
I was on business actually working for a County Court and three of us drove that day and I was uncertain who was driving at the time.

So I asked for the evidence, but the photo only showed the numberplate, as I couldnt identify the driver. I gave the names and addresses for the three people in the car.

Almost six months later I received a court date, for failing to provide driver information, but not for the speeding offence. I was told, I could explain the circumstances in Court, by providing witnesses, but as one now lived abroad, and a trip to North Wales, was not convenient, I pleaded guilty by post. I received 3 points and £160 fine.

As you say notorious North Wales, they get you one way or another.

 

[imadoofus]

the problem is that if you just own up, you could be liable to perjury if you cannot genuinely remember who was driving and get the dates mixed up. This is clearly stated on the NIP that if you tell any lies e.t.c it could be worse.

Yes but who the hell is going to know? Two drivers, both of whom are insured to drive the car(s) in question. Both own up to speeding, one offence each. It doesn't go anywhere near a court, and why in the world would anyone then decide to question it once the fines have been paid? Why draw anyone's attention to it?

 

[fuzzer]

When you're nabbed by a camera (as oppsoed to being pulled over by a policeman) they have 14 days to issue a NIP. Not sure if there's a time limit on summons or if you're pulled over.

Policeman issues a NIP at the roadside if a licence is produced and issues you with a 7 day notice to provide documents if you don't which when handed over counts as your NIP.

Not sure if they offer you a fixed penalty or pass it to the court at the roadside too of if that goes to the sales department to see if they are on target for the month.

 

[fuzzer]

I recently received two speeding tickets in the notorious district of North Wales. As my wife and I both drive each others vehicles we could not remember who was driving on the days the speeding offences were committed . The route is taken by both of us on our daily commute.

My wife wrote a letter explaining this fact, and stated that as we both could not agree who was driving the vehicle on the particular days identified, we were however both prepared to pay for one offence each. Unfortunately we did not know which name to put on the form for the relevant dates and wrote asking for advice.

We then got a letter back stating that we would have to attend court and explain this. We were advised we would receive a summons in due course.......that was four weeks ago ?....will be interesting to know what happens.

Who's got the least points?

 

[grober]

Track record??

There is the distinct possibility of course that in the "absence of denial" the court will chose to give both penalty points to one driver and not share them out. Their rational approach to that from a prevention point of view would be to assign them to the person with the greater motive to indulge in penalty avoidance-- i.e. the one with currently the most points on their licence. The courts take a very dim view of anything that hints of penalty avoidance so expect your day in court.

 

[Rory]

There is the distinct possibility of course that in the "absence of denial" the court will chose to give both penalty points to one driver and not share them out. Their rational approach to that from a prevention point of view would be to assign them to the person with the greater motive to indulge in penalty avoidance-- i.e. the one with currently the most points on their licence.

No - if they pursue an S172 offence (failing to identify the driver) they'll give the fine (up to £1000) & points (3) to whoever is the registered keeper of the car. Of course if the magistrates believe that you've made every effort to identify the driver etc etc, then you'll be found not guilty. Don't bet on this being the outcome.

The courts take a dim view of the RK now knowing who was driving - suppose there were several possible drivers (and the RK wasn't present) and the car was implicated as having caused a serious (maybe fatal) accident?

Petef - you need to have a look through http://www.pepipoo.com.

Some people (noteably Neil & Christine Hamilton, hence it's become known as the Hamilton defence - although their case was slightly different in that they were both in the car and sharing the driving) have got away with this, but most people don't.

 

[recycled]

A few years ago, I got a NIP from North Wales, it is in a area I do not know.
I was on business actually working for a County Court and three of us drove that day and I was uncertain who was driving at the time.

So I asked for the evidence, but the photo only showed the numberplate, as I couldnt identify the driver. I gave the names and addresses for the three people in the car.

Almost six months later I received a court date, for failing to provide driver information, but not for the speeding offence. I was told, I could explain the circumstances in Court, by providing witnesses, but as one now lived abroad, and a trip to North Wales, was not convenient, I pleaded guilty by post. I received 3 points and £160 fine.



As you say notorious North Wales, they get you one way or another.

How long ago was this?
Basically the laws on road traffic change like the chameleon.
I am not sure you can just be prosecuted anymore on number plate alone ,except you are terrified and just plead guilty for peace of mind.
If you are a genuine case,why should you take the can for someone else.

With all the clone plates running around .It is frightening people could get banned just for staying at home as they cannot prove that their car was parked up in their garage at the time of the offence.

 

[wobbly]

How long ago was this?
Basically the laws on road traffic change like the chameleon.
I am not sure you can just be prosecuted anymore on number plate alone ,except you are terrified and just plead guilty for peace of mind.
If you are a genuine case,why should you take the can for someone else.

With all the clone plates running around .It is frightening people could get banned just for staying at home as they cannot prove that their car was parked up in their garage at the time of the offence.

The offence took place in August 05.

I was prosecuted for not identifying the driver, not the speeding offence.

 

[recycled]

Well you better ask benz commander for advice then.

As to how he sorted his out.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=33265http://

Or wait till june 29th where the verdict from the ECHR on the right to remain silent comes out.

 

[grober]

Be glad your not in China!

Just to put this in perspective Amnesty International have recently published a list of the 68 crimes in China to which the death penalty can apply! These include

Poisoning of livestock
Blackmail
Hooliganism
Disrupting public order
Reselling VAT receipts
Tax Evasion
Dealing in cultural relics
Cattle rustling
Tax Fraud
Embezzlement
Bribery
Drugs related offences.

Last year 1,010 people were executed and 2,790 sentenced to death although unofficial estimates indicate a figure of up to 10 times that.

Once they all start driving MG's 12 penalty points might take on an entirely new meaning!