Two Tickets And You're Banned

[hawk20]

Front page of the Times today says govt plans new laws so that two speeding tickets will mean a ban. Speeding well over the 30 limit will carry six points. Ditto for other speed limits including 94 or more on a motorway or dual carriageway will be 6 points as well.
Here are the details: -
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/to...449.ece?CMP=KNC-LBN&HBX_PK=speeding&HBX_OU=50

 

[hawk20]

Here's a section from the Times: -
"Motorists face being banned from driving for only two speeding offences under a government plan to double the fixed penalty for exceeding the limit by a wide margin, The Times has learnt.
Those caught driving at 45mph or above in a 30mph limit are likely to receive a higher-rate fixed penalty of six points and a £100 fine, up from the existing flat rate of three points and a £60 fine.
Ministers want to send the message that excessive speeding will lead more quickly to an automatic six-month driving ban for totting up 12 points within three years.
More than 1.1 million drivers have six or more points on their licences and, under the new law, could be banned immediately for one more offence.
function pictureGalleryPopup(pubUrl,articleId) {var newWin = window.open(pubUrl+'template/2.0-0/element/pictureGalleryPopup.jsp?id='+articleId+'&&offset=0&&sectionName=Driving','mywindow','menubar=0,resizable=0,width=615,height=655');}


The higher penalty is also likely to apply to drivers caught at 57mph or above on a 40mph road and 94mph or above on a 70mph road."

 

[pammy]

I saw this on the news last night and people were complaining. But tbh - if you're going that far over the limit then you deserve a higher penalty. Lets face it you do know when you are travelling way over the speed limit.

However, I don't see how it would affect the 1.1m quoted. This can't be applied retrospectively.

 

[stats007]

However, I don't see how it would affect the 1.1m quoted. This can't be applied retrospectively.

More than 1.1 million drivers have six or more points on their licences and, under the new law, could be banned immediately for one more offence.

.

 

[crockers]

I think that they mean 1.1 m have 6pts already so one of the new offence makes 12 pts and therefore a ban

I agree that 45+ in a residential area is dangerous --- but then so is 35 if its school closing time.... but what about 1 am ?

Needs a little bit more thought -- but I can see where they are going with this one..

 

[television]

As I heard it it would be 6 points and off with your head, but if this is implemented it would be 6 points form the time it started

 

[crockers]

As I heard it it would be 6 points and off with your head, but if this is implemented it would be 6 points form the time it started

True...but if you already have 6pts one of the new offences added to your existing tally makes 12 and that equals a ban.....

 

[television]

True...but if you already have 6pts one of the new offences added to your existing tally makes 12 and that equals a ban.....

Yes that would be the case and the same as now

 

[grober]

I saw this on the news last night and people were complaining. But tbh - if you're going that far over the limit then you deserve a higher penalty. Lets face it you do know when you are travelling way over the speed limit.

While totally agreeing with your sentiment Pammy I think with the performance profile of todays cars it is extremely easy to inadvertantly drift up to 45 mph in some 30mph zones. I would prefer more driver aids to assist them to obey the limits. Personally I find the advisory signs which alert drivers to their speed and to slow down very useful. I wonder if the road transport laboratory has done the same amount of research on this and similar types of approach rather than the punitive speed cameras? The other fear voiced yesterday would be that punitive penalties like this will result in many more unlicenced uninsured unroadtaxed drivers on our roads. If people feel the system has treated them unjustly they may well just opt out.

 

[crockers]

While totally agreeing with your sentiment Pammy I think with the performance profile of todays cars it is extremely easy to inadvertantly drift up to 45 mph in some 30mph zones. I would prefer more driver aids to assist them to obey the limits. Personally I find the advisory signs which alert drivers to their speed and to slow down very useful. I wonder if the road transport laboratory has done the same amount of research on this and similar types of approach rather than the punitive speed cameras? The other fear voiced yesterday would be that punitive penalties like this will result in many more unlicenced uninsured unroadtaxed drivers on our roads. If people feel the system has treated them unjustly they may well just opt out.

SPEEDTRONIC.......................

 

[MBManInKen]

Crockers beat me to it .

Grober, Speedtronic is what you're after. I use it all the time and it's a great way of staying within the limit without having to keep your eye on the speedometer all the time.

Brilliant tool.

 

[television]

I have just started to use mine in built up areas, some how it has altered my driving in that when the speedtronic is engaged you know that you cant get clocked. without it as said it is so easy to wander up to 40 without thinking when you start leaving the town center on a seemingly open road.

 

[grober]

SPEEDTRONIC.......................

Good point but many cars don't have this facility on board. Is there a case for a) making such a facility manditory on all cars?
b) having 20/30 mph zone transducer signals to "switch on" this control independent of driver input so you simply can't break the law ?

Its just at the moment I sense an "imbalance" in the facilities offered to help the driver to obey the law versus the facilities available to law enforcement to penalise the motorist for transgressions. I'm talking a speedometer costing a fiver versus a traffic patrol car containing £50,000 of electronics to bring the errant motorist to book.

 

[jamesmc]

I think the bigger point is being missed here. Why are they stiffening up on the penalties for speeding? What about penalties for other motoring offences such as lack of due care and attention when pulling out at junctions? Running red lights?

The Governments fixation on speed reduction is misguided in my opinion. I believe I read somewhere that excessive speeding is a contributory factor in less than 5% of accidents.
Yet, I wouldn't mind betting that if you carried out a survey with UK motorists and asked them what is the most contributory cause of accidents they would most likely respond with excessive speed! Brainwashed by the constant barrage of phrases like 'reduce your speed', 'speeds kills' etc.

It's the other 95% of contributory causes they [the government] should be looking at if 'safety' is their genuine concern. But is safety what the 'speed kills' campaign is all about?

Banning motorists more readily will cut down on potential revenue won't it?
I x banned motorist = less road tax collected.. be it in in the form of Road Fund, VAT on fuel, servicing parts etc.

 

[fredfloggle]

Quite agree about unsafe use of speed , but how about the Government spends some more money on school patrols , let's face it the road is not the place for children to be walking .

My children (when in the UK) attend a small village school in a pan handle - the local council see's fit to send a traffic warden to make sure no one parks illegally - when parking is not that much of an issue , why not send a lolly-pop lady to make sure that children don't mess around in the road?

Always the motorist to blame - sure we shouldn't speed , but how about parents taking a more pro-active approach to stopping their children wandering around in the highway?

Taking away a persons livelyhood for a speeding offence seems a bit tough , particularly when some people manage to drive without insurance , or use the phone while driving whilst getting a lower penalty .
Always the easy way out in the UK , the speeding motorist is an easy target ,whereas I read stories of many immigrant drivers wiping out a bus stop with no insurance , yet they seem to get away with it - howso?

 

[Fandango]

Quite agree about unsafe use of speed , but how about the Government spends some more money on school patrols , let's face it the road is not the place for children to be walking .

My children (when in the UK) attend a small village school in a pan handle - the local council see's fit to send a traffic warden to make sure no one parks illegally - when parking is not that much of an issue , why not send a lolly-pop lady to make sure that children don't mess around in the road?

Always the motorist to blame - sure we shouldn't speed , but how about parents taking a more pro-active approach to stopping their children wandering around in the highway?

Taking away a persons livelyhood for a speeding offence seems a bit tough , particularly when some people manage to drive without insurance , or use the phone while driving whilst getting a lower penalty .
Always the easy way out in the UK , the speeding motorist is an easy target ,whereas I read stories of many immigrant drivers wiping out a bus stop with no insurance , yet they seem to get away with it - howso?

I don't usually reply to trolls, so I'll keep it short.

Especially if driving is your livelyhood, keep within the limits.

All of these bus stops being wiped out by immigrants, maybe they should be all be herded on to trains and taken to 're-education' camps?

 

[fredfloggle]

Only fact - sorry you don't like it , suggest you do a search and see how many new immigrants to the UK flout driving regulations because they can , it's easy.

So if driving isn't my livelyhood (and it isn't) then I can speed can I?

And yes - while we are on the subject , I feel that the UK is a soft touch - I'm married to an "immigrant" , and she also can't work out quite how some people come to the UK and remain after committing serious offences - nothing racial in it , nothing against immigrants - just a natural concern about the UK's home policy.

Since you asked for it - here it is , and no offense meant to any driver who drives in accordance with our regulations :-

http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a496.asp
http://www.roadsidelawyer.co.uk/que...h-damage-and-personal-injury-recovery-1117751
http://www.creweguardian.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1341161.mostcommented.polish_cars.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6040514.stm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=424502&in_page_id=1770
http://www.pda-uk.org/nuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=15363


And buddy - the word you are looking for is "curmudgeon"

A curmudgeon's reputation for malevolence is undeserved. They're neither warped nor evil at heart. They don't hate mankind, just mankind's absurdities. They're just as sensitive and soft-hearted as the next guy, but they hide their vulnerability beneath a crust of misanthropy. They ease the pain by turning hurt into humor. . . . . . They attack maudlinism because it devalues genuine sentiment. . . . . . Nature, having failed to equip them with a servicable denial mechanism, has endowed them with astute perception and sly wit.
Curmudgeons are mockers and debunkers whose bitterness is a symptom rather than a disease. They can't compromise their standards and can't manage the suspension of disbelief necessary for feigned cheerfulness. Their awareness is a curse.
Perhaps curmudgeons have gotten a bad rap in the same way that the messenger is blamed for the message: They have the temerity to comment on the human condition without apology. They not only refuse to applaud mediocrity, they howl it down with morose glee. Their versions of the truth unsettle us, and we hold it against them, even though they soften it with humor.

- JON WINOKUR
​

 

[television]

Those links opened my eyes to a few things.

 

[Colin_b]

I suspect this may be the start of a slippery slope....

Replace expensive traffic patrols with nice profitable enforcement cameras and associated infrastructure. Seen to be doing something by catching lots of people. It will, i predict have little effect in reducing road casualties.

Those who choose to disregard the law will become more adept at doing so - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6707367.stm

False (valid) number plates are easy to produce on a PC, steal or get made. This allows the crooks to run a car for free, and no penalty from cameras. As penalties for speeding become more severe, the temptation to move outside the law will become more attractive.

We'll end up with an underclass of drivers who are unlicenced, uninsured, untaxed and dangerous.

This will mean the rest of us having to drive expensively tagged cars, with every journey being monitored, then charged per mile.

In the meantime, the crooks have discovered a market for cloned RFID plates or jammers, and we are back to square 1.

If the problem is too many road casualties, then I feel the solution is more traffic police, who can spot bad and dangerous drivers by instict and do something there and then, rather than a technology war.

 

[fredfloggle]

If I thought for one minute that the proposed legislation was about safety , then I would agree , but it is yet another way of generating income -

Let us remember how the prison service allowed this :- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7072129.stm

Why not confiscate the lot and use it to resurface a couple of miles of London or stop a hospital closing - the whole place has gone mad.

We'll end up with an underclass of drivers who are unlicenced, uninsured, untaxed and dangerous.

We already have it , but what I don't understand is how we can't do anything about it .

Am I alone in believing that the UK needs tougher punishment in the right places? and a return to the old way of doing things ?

False (valid) number plates are easy to produce on a PC, steal or get made. This allows the crooks to run a car for free, and no penalty from cameras. As penalties for speeding become more severe, the temptation to move outside the law will become more attractive.

Quite true - for every "law" there will be a way of circumventing it , especially with a camera on every street corner , the temptation to run dodgy plates becomes even stronger , and while you are at it , you don't care about speed or parking or congestion charges do you? the more the merrier.

Yes Malcolm , I too was surprised , as some of you know , I am not a full time UK resident - and was surprised to hear so many taxi drivers complaining about problems/accidents with new european immigrants. Drive around with a Brit plate in Poland is a sure way of being stopped every ten minutes .