Tyre novice - help needed!

[Jukie]

My 2000 E320 CDi Avantgarde needs to be re-shod all round (215/55 R16 W). I'm currently on Pirelli P6000s. Should I stay with these or consider Dunlop SP9000s and Falken GRB FK 451s?

I've no clue when it comes to choosing tyres, hence the post. I predominantly crawl 7 miles each way to and from work each day plus other little bits of urban running round during the week. However I will be doing a run from Liverpool to Carlisle and back at weekends from December and for the foreseeable future.

Any advice/recommendations would be much appreciated.

TIA, David

 

[rirhill]

Hi there
I have Dunlop 8000 which are fine for grip but not very long lasting. The best advice I could give is shop around as you can save a bomb. I have 235 16 45 and I paid £120 a tyre and Kwik fit wanted £230 or something silly. If you can get them fitted locally for a good price then the below do mail order. Great prices.

http://www.micheldever.co.uk/
I hope this helps.

Regards
Ian

 

[MainMan]

The P6000s are not very good tyres. They have little grip in the wet or dry and are also quite expensive. They do wear quite well though, probably as a consequence of the lack of grip. I wouldn't go for one of the high end expensive sports tyres like F1s, PS2s because you'll get little benefit and they're also poor in winter. I'd go for Uniroyal Rainsports. They're reasonably cheap, widely avaliable and also perform very well in most conditions. Run a check on mytyres.co.uk to check on the price - I'd guess less than £90 a corner fitted and balanced should be possible.

 

[Jukie]

Cheers, guys.

If I move from P6000s, should I replace the spare as well? It, too, is a P6000 but it's only done 12 miles - used for the first time on Saturday!

 

[Shude]

If I move from P6000s, should I replace the spare as well? It, too, is a P6000 but it's only done 12 miles - used for the first time on Saturday!

Don't bother! The spare isn't that important, a lot of cars these days don't even have spares, and if they do it's a pathetic space-saver. A full-sized wheel with a brand new tyre of the same rating as the others, even if it is a different manufacturer, will be fine to use every day until a tyre can be replaced/repaired etc.

 

[MainMan]

Ditto, I wouldn't bother.

The subject of tyres is a bit of a mine field because there are literally hundreds to choose from and they're not all suitable for everyday driving. I changed by P6000s for Bridgestone S03s a couple of years ago. I was pretty unhappy with the Pirellis and decided to go for an out and out sports tyre - big mistake. The Bridgestones were great most of the time - good in the wet and dry - but they were useless in the winter and, in snow, the lack of grip was almost unbelievable. Mercs need all the help they can get in this area, because of the fat tyres and front engine/rear wheel drive. They also wore out in 8000 miles. This time round I did a bit more research and narrowed it down to Vredestein Ultracs, Goodyear F1s or Uniroyal Rainsports. I ruled out the F1s because I don't think they're that good in winter. I bought the Ultracs in the end which seem to be as good as the S03s in wet and dry and will wear better - also much cheaper. They'll be better in snow but I don't yet know how much better. The moral is don't believe that the big name expensive tyres are the best because they're not.

 

[C240Sport97]

Autocar's tyre test of 19/10/04 of 5 tyres came out as follows:

1. Goodyear Hydragrip
2=. Dunlop SP Sport 01
2=. Michelin Pilot Premacy
2=. Pirelli P6
5. Brigdestone ER30

 

[Jukie]

Funnily enough, The Ultrac's are the most expensive on Etyres! But may go for them all the same. Have been looking through the tyre threads and Conti Premium contacts, Dunlop Sport 01s & Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3s seem to be popular with fellow members.

I do need to consider that twice a week I will be on the M6 in Cumbria, where Penrith & Shap frequently suffer with bad weather!

Thanks for your comments so far - your reputations are growing!

 

[MainMan]

The prices on etyres are a sick joke. Don't touch them with a barge pole. I bought 4 Ultracs (2 each of 225/45R17W and 245/40R17W) for just under £380 balanced and fitted. etyres seem to be more like £580. The trouble with Vredestein is that a lot of the really big (and cheap) dealers don't stock them.

 

[glojo]

Autocar's tyre test of 19/10/04 of 5 tyres came out as follows:

1. Goodyear Hydragrip
2=. Dunlop SP Sport 01
2=. Michelin Pilot Premacy
2=. Pirelli P6
5. Brigdestone ER30

Can anyone recommend the Goodyear Hydragrips?

Thanks for posting on this very informative thread.

Regards,
John

 

[Jukie]

Eagle F1 GSD3s seem to highly recommended. Does anyone know how they compare to the NCT5 in the wet/ice?

I am a conservative driver!

TIA again.

 

[C240Sport97]

Autocar's summary:

When we first tested the Hydragrip's predecessor (the Eagle Ventura) five years ago, we said it had moved the goalposts for this class of tyre. Its directional pattern helped it sail through the wet tests ahead of its competitors. Only its mediocre performance in the dry let it down.

Much can the same can be said for the Hydragrip. It won all our wet tests (tying for first place with the Dunlop in wet handling) and, despite Goodyear's efforts to improve its dry road capability, finished clear last in the dry handling. So here's a tyre where the deal is clear: supreme wet performance for drivers prepared to sacrifice some entertainment in the dry.

The remaining tyres (except for the Bridgestone) have a less obvious division of abilities, with little to choose between the Dunlop SP Sport 01, Pirelli P6 and Michelin Pilot Premacy, particularly bearing in mind that the latter missed the noise test. All three are fine tyres, eclipsed only by the exceptional Goodyear.

Which leaves Bridgestone's ER30 at the bottom of the heap, displaying exactly the opposite strengths and weaknesses of the Hydragrip. Masterly in the dry, it bombed in the wet and in the coast by noise, too. A poor performance from the masters of F1, but look out for a reversal in its performance in the high performance category.

Test Results:

Noise test
1. Goodyear
2. Dunlop
3. Pirelli
4. Bridgestone

Wet Handling:
1. Goodyear
2. Dunlop
3. Pirelli
4. Michelin
5. Bridgestone

Dry Handling:
1. Bridgestone
2. Dunlop
3. Pirelli
4. Michelin
5. Goodyear

Wet Braking:
1. Goodyear
2. Pirelli
3. Michelin
4. Dunlop
5. Bridgestone

Straight Aquaplaning:
1. Goodyear
2. Michelin
3. Pirelli
4. Dunlop
5. Bridgestone

Curved Aquaplaning
1. Goodyear
2. Michelin
3. Dunlop
4. Pirelli
5. Bridgestone

Can anyone recommend the Goodyear Hydragrips?

Thanks for posting on this very informative thread.

Regards,
John

 

[glojo]

Only its mediocre performance in the dry let it down.

Much can the same can be said for the Hydragrip. It won all our wet tests (tying for first place with the Dunlop in wet handling) and, despite Goodyear's efforts to improve its dry road capability, finished clear last in the dry handling.

Hi Sean,
Thank you very much for the quick response. The tyre certainly sounds excellent in the wet, but I am concerned that it came last on the dry tests.

I don't suppose that its performance could have been that bad seeing as though it was still voted the best tyre??

What is your opinion, and what tyres do you use?

Since buying new vehicles I have stopped taking any great interest in tyres, but this thread has opened my eyes and I will certainly not just replace 'old with the same new' tyres.

Down here in the west country I have found the main dealer to be just as competitive as the spealised tyre companies. Is this a nationwide situation, or do you get better deals in the cities?

Regards,
John

 

[C240Sport97]

I have 17" AMG alloys which means I have to buy expensive tyres. I use Pirelli P Zero Rossos, which won the Autocar high performance tyres test in Oct 03. Before I changed to Pirellis, I had Continental Sport Contacts which were horrible. Read about it here:

http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7207&highlight=rosso

If I was buying tyres for your car, I would go with the Autocar recommendation. Or alternatively, take a look at the rankings on the Autoexpress tyre test recently:

http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=9084&highlight=tyre+test

where you will see that the Goodyear Hydragrip came 2nd in a field of 16.

Try also Bracknell Tyres 01344 411323 for good deals on tyres.

 

[willy]

if you are not after a super high performance tyre, I can recommend Conti Premium Contacts as they are a good all rounder and quite hard wearing.

 

[MainMan]

The trouble with the Autocar tests (and also the Which tyre tests and Autoexpress tyre tests) is that you wonder why they selected that group of tyres. If the got the Bridgestone ER30, why haven't they included the RE050 which is probably the best of their tyres (but expensive). If they've got the Pilot Premacy, why not PS2s which are the most popular Michelin sports tyre. Why no F1s, Sportracs etc. Then you get on to the tests. It's OK to test the wet and dry handling, braking, rolling resistance, noise, etc, but what about the performance at low temperatures. That's where the rubber compound is crucial. For example, if the temperature drops to near zero (which it will soon) the rubber on S03s becomes rock hard and feels like glass. You can tell by running your fingers over it that it's not going to grip, and it doesn't. If it's a bit wet too, they become fairly dangerous. This is a big factor and is more important than measuring slight differences in absolute grip on a racing track.

 

[Shude]

...what about the performance at low temperatures. That's where the rubber compound is crucial. For example, if the temperature drops to near zero (which it will soon) the rubber on S03s becomes rock hard and feels like glass. You can tell by running your fingers over it that it's not going to grip, and it doesn't.

Pirelli only rate their P6000 down to 7°c. What happens below that temperature? They don't work! This is one of the reasons that I want some winter tyres which should be better for much lower temps, I spend most of my time in winter driving around in sub 7°c temps!

 

[MainMan]

The thing is P6000s, although they're obviously not going to compare with all-season or winter tyres at low temperature, they're actually not that bad in snow. You can actually use them if you're careful. (I guess that may be a factor in MB using them as original equipment). Some tyres are completely useless. Unfortunately it's difficult to know which because the manufacturers just tell you not to use any of them below a certain temperature - I think Bridgestone don't recommend use below 4 degrees.

On the subject of winter tyres, I went down that route and eventually gave up when they tyre dealer said that I couldn't fit tyres rated below W on my car without invalidating the insurance. Insurance companies are effing useless. (Winter tyres are usually H).

 

[Shude]

On the subject of winter tyres, I went down that route and eventually gave up when they tyre dealer said that I couldn't fit tyres rated below W on my car without invalidating the insurance. Insurance companies are effing useless. (Winter tyres are usually H).

Winter tyres for 16" or above are easy to get in V rating, I don't know about W. You won't find any in the UK but you can get them from Germany etc.

 

[C240Sport97]

how do you find out what temp (lowest) a tyre is rated to?

I was driving in Suffolk last week-end at -2C on my P Zero Rossos and they felt absolutely fine.