UK law and court judments

[alabbasi]

All, maybe someone can give me some insight here. A friend of mine in the UK intended to buy a used E class at a Mercedes Benz dealer in Birmingham. He placed a 500GBP deposit to hold the car and scheduled a time for collection. At some point en route, they told him that they sold the car from under him. Crappy service but it is what it is.

Where things became odd is that they refused to return his deposit, indicating that it was not refundable because he negotiated the deposit down from another amount.

That story struck me as odd and not what i would expect from a dealership. I suggested at the time that he take hem to court, which he did, and the judge sided with him and ordered the deposit to be returned. This was a few months ago and the topic came back up recently and I expected it to be settled. He told me that the dealer is still refusing to pay the deposit, indicating that they don't really care about the judgment. Does this sound right? I would expect there to be some recourse if a business refuses a court order.

He indicated that his only recourse now is to contact a bailiff and work with them.

 

[whitenemesis]

It certainly doesn't sound right for a franchised MB dealership to simply refuse a CCJ

Have a read here, a lot depends on how he made the initial claim

Make a court claim for money

How to take legal action if someone owes you money (small claims court), how much it costs, what happens next. Includes information from withdrawn guidance EX303, EX304, EX306, EX321, EX325 and EX350.

www.gov.uk

 

[moonloops]

I normally find issuing a winding-up order gets their attention. Debt has to be over £750 unfortunately, just looked it up.

 

[Harrythedog]

If it was a County Court judgement you can escalate it to the High Court for circa £70.
Odd behaviour though, you’d think a deposit for an item they wouldn’t let you have would be refunded

 

[Big Janner]

All, maybe someone can give me some insight here. A friend of mine in the UK intended to buy a used E class at a Mercedes Benz dealer in Birmingham. He placed a 500GBP deposit to hold the car and scheduled a time for collection. At some point en route, they told him that they sold the car from under him. Crappy service but it is what it is.

Where things became odd is that they refused to return his deposit, indicating that it was not refundable because he negotiated the deposit down from another amount.

That story struck me as odd and not what i would expect from a dealership. I suggested at the time that he take hem to court, which he did, and the judge sided with him and ordered the deposit to be returned. This was a few months ago and the topic came back up recently and I expected it to be settled. He told me that the dealer is still refusing to pay the deposit, indicating that they don't really care about the judgment. Does this sound right? I would expect there to be some recourse if a business refuses a court order.

He indicated that his only recourse now is to contact a bailiff and work with them.

For £60 he can get it raised to the high court
The dealership will then pay up, or lose a car off the forecourt

 

[Rpp999]

What a Liberty.

 

[zipdip]

What a crazy world we are living in.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

Sounds like as clear a case of beach of contract as you can get..

Time to get on social media, addressed to MB UK...

 

[alabbasi]

Thanks all, I suggested that he make contact with the Mercedes Benz corporate customer service # and explain what's going on, and back it up with the CCJ documentation if needed.

At least here in the US, the dealers are franchisee's and not part of the corporation. If it's the same way in the UK, I would expect that if anyone could influence the dealership, it would be Mercedes Benz corporate.

It frankly blows my mind that a main dealer can be this bent and expect to stay in business, but the UK has some funny laws.

 

[Dryce]

It certainly doesn't sound right for a franchised MB dealership to simply refuse a CCJ

It doesn't.

If this has gone to court as described then naming and shaming is appropriate.

 

[Will]

How was the deposit paid?

If he paid using a debit or credit card, just contact them and they should process a chargeback.

 

[C240Sport97]

Is this a Mercedes franchised official dealer?

outrageous behaviour

 

[C240Sport97]

the UK has some funny laws.

nothing wrong with English law, merely that the dealer is not complying

 

[alabbasi]

How was the deposit paid?

If he paid using a debit or credit card, just contact them and they should process a chargeback.

I could not tell you as I did not ask but needless to say it's been a few months now as he's already gone to court and the CCJ was awarded before this Covid sh*tshow.
This dealer is supposed to be the biggest dealer in the country or something like that. It's hard to imagine that they would be this petty.

nothing wrong with English law, merely that the dealer is not complying

It's been years since I lived in the UK but i'm getting flashbacks of these consumer affairs shows on TV where unscrupulous business owners getting away with all sorts because it's so hard to enforce a judgment.

 

[Bert_W164]

Tell him to apply to enforce the judgment. A Writ of FiFa will work wonders though it's been a while since I've been in that field, and I recall the value to use that method had to be £600.

He can instruct county court bailiffs to go around and make a fuss, each visit will incur them costs etc.

There's other options too, speak to the Enforcement section of the court.

 

[Wagon]

The Sheriffs Office

Welcome to The Sheriffs Office, the experts in debt recovery and enforcement services across all of England and Wales.

thesheriffsoffice.com

 

[Will]

There’s got to be more to this story?

 

[alabbasi]

Tell him to apply to enforce the judgment. A Writ of FiFa will work wonders though it's been a while since I've been in that field, and I recall the value to use that method had to be £600.

He can instruct county court bailiffs to go around and make a fuss, each visit will incur them costs etc.

There's other options too, speak to the Enforcement section of the court.

I think that this is what he was planning to do but it seems super inefficient and i don't know if there's a cost to him to get bailiffs involved. I suspect that because of the size of the judgement, the dealership is just expecting that he'd go away and not bother pursuing it. In any case, I don't want to get too deep into his business. I'm more curious as to how this dealer thinks that he can get away with this.

 

[E55BOF]

This sort of thing is a standard tactic with dodgy small-time dealers; if the amount is not too large, they just ignore the claim and hope that in time the claimant will lose interest, or fall seriously ill or die, or emigrate, or go to prison, and the matter will not be pursued. If your friend engages court bailiffs, their upfront costs are I think quite low, and if they are unable to obtain payment, that is all the claimant pays. If they are succesful, and if the defendant is a main dealer it is difficult to see how they would not be, the defendant pays the enforcement costs, which are usually quite a lot higher.

Let me tell you a story... I have a family member who is a retired architect, and in that line of business non-payment and subsequent court recovery action is quite common. One day he had a flyer put through the door of the office from a firm called 'Futuristic Enterprises', offering a debt recovery service for surprisingly low fees. Intrigued, he rang the number and asked for a rep to call to discuss the matter.

A couple of big Irish lads in battered leather jackets and jeans duly turned up. They confirmed that yes, the fees quoted (as a percentage of the debt) were correct, and no, there would be no additional costs whatever the outcome. He asked about licences, and what legal process they followed. The larger of the two replied:

"Well, sorr, we don't bother with lawyers and that. We just go round and have a little word with them, if ye get my drift, and they usually see it our way..."

 

[markjay]

I normally find issuing a winding-up order gets their attention. Debt has to be over £750 unfortunately, just looked it up.

It can work, but it can be risky.

A winding-up petition basically means that you are claiming that the company is trading while insolvent, or in other words that the reason that they are not paying is that they can't pay.

If the company is healthy, all they need do is demonstrate that they can pay - e.g. showing a healthy bank balance - and the issue goes away. They don't need to actually make the payment, or to explain why they are not paying, they just need to show that they are able to pay.

On the other hand, if the company isn't doing well, they could be wind-up, and none of their creditors will see any money.

But yes in some circumstances this is the right tool to use. A company that is struggling with cash flow will know they won't be able to demonstrate ability to pay a larger debt and might settle instead.