Ulez extended to the M25?

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what pees me off re the ulez is that when my car passes its MOT it is deemed to be ok regards emissions then along comes some tinpot mayor of a town who decides that he will change the rules regarding emissions. surely if the DOT say my car is Ok then why should someone else be allowed to say it isnt Ok.

As per my reply to Dryce in #10 above, this is true, however, it is down to the old central-government-vs-local-government debate - i.e., should the latter be allowed to set their own air quality policies, or should these be dictated centrally from Whitehall? I don't have the answer to that, but just to say that this is a much bigger debate than ULEZ.
 
Bottom line, all they want is your money.

...or, alternatively, your compliance, if you happen to not be currently compliant. The ULEZ charge as it stands won't apply to most Londoners anyway, and for those who still drive older Diesel cars, it can be avoided, in most cases without too much hassle (as per my post #40 above).
 
the fact remains that it will be only a tiny minority of old Diesel car owners who will find themselves in this position.
Nonsense, If the goverment was counting on a tiny minority of diesel owners to find themselves in this position, they would not have spent the money on the infrastructure to collect revenues. The decision was made because it's going to generate a lot of revnue.

Fair enough, but does this mean that we should now discontinue our efforts for improvement in this area?

Nobody discontinued anything. Engines are continueing to be more effecient without the need to levy taxes on the consumer.
 
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.
We're somehow sleepwalking as a nation into a pervasive state-intervention governing almost every element of civic life. For example, speed cameras on motorways forcing traffic to slow down arbitrarily. Ludicrous.

'State Intervention' is what having a government is all about in the first place... it's not a bad word.

Without 'State Intervention', for example, we would not have had any Motorways, simply because the farmers could not be made to sell or give-up the land without the government having the backing of the Compulsory Purchase legislation behind it (and what is more 'State Intervention' than the government forcing you to sell your property - that your family may have owned for generations - at a set price?). The same goes for railways, and many other things that the public benefits from.

(Unless you are one of those who consider themselves to be 'Natural Citizens' or a 'Sovereign Citizens' and do not recognise the authority of any government, but luckily these people are a tiny minority)

Naturally, different people will have different ideas as to when and how the state should intervene, and this is often reflected in the different political parties.
 
As per my reply to Dryce in #10 above, this is true, however, it is down to the old central-government-vs-local-government debate - i.e., should the latter be allowed to set their own air quality policies, or should these be dictated centrally from Whitehall? I don't have the answer to that, but just to say that this is a much bigger debate than ULEZ.

I'm an advocate of there being national standards and that local councils or regional adminstrations are barred from modifying them.

But this has been eroded.

We had the congestion charge in London and then the nighttime traffic curbs.

In Scotland we absurdly have a different NSL for trucks on single carriage way roads (with a permanent 'trial' exception over the A9).

I don't expect it to be the exactly same driving in Shetland vs Westminster but I do expect there to be a common set of rules and conventions that are straightforward and streamlined with regard to rules, signage, and layout.

It's really confusing entering London and then seeing signage for the LEZ and ULEZ for the first time. We shouldn't need to receive letters in Scotland about a city at the other end of the UK unilaterally changing its rules.
 
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

I got my IONIQ 5 in September last year. Amazing car!

Did they opt for RWD or AWD? With the Tech Pack and Eco Pack or not? What colour?

Tell me everything :D

Also I highly recommend this forum:

RWD with Eco and Tech packs. A metallic blue as far as I know
 
Nonsense, If the goverment was counting on a tiny minority of diesel owners to find themselves in this position, they would not have spent the money on the infrastructure to collect revenues. The decision was made because it's going to generate a lot of revnue.

Fine - so drivers can beat TfL at their own game - if they don't drive old Diesel cars into London - and smirk at TfL for having spending all this money on ANPR while not seeing a penny from them in return. There's nothing stopping drivers from doing that.

Nobody discontinued anything. Engines are continueing to be more effecient without the need to levy taxes on the consumer.

You are making the same point as TfL's here.... TfL want us to drive cars that have been made to be less-polluting, as result of the various ongoing engine development programs. And this means any petrol car that was made after 2004 (EU5), or any Diesel car that was made after 2015 (EU6). Ther's no levy or tax on these newer and more efficient cars.
 
I'm an advocate of there being national standards and that local councils or regional adminstrations are barred from modifying them.

But this has been eroded.

We had the congestion charge in London and then the nighttime traffic curbs.

In Scotland we absurdly have a different NSL for trucks on single carriage way roads (with a permanent 'trial' exception over the A9).

I don't expect it to be the exactly same driving in Shetland vs Westminster but I do expect there to be a common set of rules and conventions that are straightforward and streamlined with regard to rules, signage, and layout.

It's really confusing entering London and then seeing signage for the LEZ and ULEZ for the first time. We shouldn't need to receive letters in Scotland about a city at the other end of the UK unilaterally changing its rules.

And I don't degree.

In fact, in this instance, Londoners should be very happy about the disparity between local traffic authorities' air quality policies in the UK. It allows them to sell their old Diesel cars for good money to people living in other parts of the UK. If all major cities went ULEZ at the same time, the rural areas would not have been able to absorb all those surplus old Diesel cars sold-off by city dwellers, and prices would plummet. Which would have been great news for farmers, who would have been able to bag a (say) 10 years old Range Rover or Land Cruiser for next to nothing.... :D but I digress.
 
Did I say it's an amazing car? :D
Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but since you bought your electric car you seem to have become positively evangelical about the benefits, and decidedly negative about ICE vehicles. They do say that it's often the new converts who are the most zealous.
 
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The constant drip drip drip of yet further unwarranted and unwanted legislation wherever/whenever is however not going unnoticed I believe. Topics of conversation in my circle of friends are now constantly centred on interference by government, be it local or central, in their daily lives. Adhering to rules set by people who struggle to run a bath or tie their shoe laces is starting to wear thin. This government seems to be particularly out of touch with the majority of thinking for ordinary folk, the ‘green agenda’ compared to financial survival in difficult times just doesn’t mix well.
People could well be up for a surprise at the next GE.
 
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Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but since you bought your electric car you seem to have become positively evangelical about the benefits, and decidedly negative about ICE vehicles. They do say that it's often the new converts who are the most zealous.

I agree with the first part, but not the second.

I still have the W204 (1.6L petrol) and have no intention of selling it at current. It is kept maintained to the dot by MB Brooklands, every year, without fail. Its my pride and joy. I just drive it less these days.

And yes, having tried it myself, I think that EVs are fantastic, though I fully appreciate that they are not suitable for everyone just yet.

My issue isn't with those who say that they won't get one just yet (due to the cost of new tech, or due to lack of public chargers in their area, or due to range, etc etc), but with those who seem to suggest that EVs will never work for then, now or ever. I respectfully disagree with such views.
 
The constant drip drip drip of yet further unwarranted and unwanted legislation wherever/whenever is however not going unnoticed I believe. Topics of conversation in my circle of friends are now constantly centred on interference by government, be it local or central, in their daily lives. Adhering to rules set by people who struggle to run a bath or tie their shoe laces is starting to wear thin. This government seems to be particularly out of touch with the majority of thinking for ordinary folk, the ‘green agenda’ compared to financial survival in difficult times just doesn’t mix well.
People could well be up for a surprise at the next GE.

I agree, as far as Green agenda goes.

Though, again, ULEZ does nothing for the environment (the polluting cars are just being pushed out of London and onto other parts of the UK).

It is purely aimed at improving air quality in residential areas.

So it is not related to the government various (controvertial) Green initiatives.
 
Fine - so drivers can beat TfL at their own game - if they don't drive old Diesel cars into London - and smirk at TfL for having spending all this money on ANPR while not seeing a penny from them in return. There's nothing stopping drivers from doing that.

By beating them, you mean go to the time, effort and money of finding a replacement car. That's not beating them. That's getting screwed by them
TfL want us to drive cars that have been made to be less-polluting,

No, my point is that TFL should not be telling anyone what they should be driving. Furthermore, last time I was there (November), the Taxi's and buses were still diesel. I don't see them drinking from the same cup they're making everybody else drink from.
 
....last time I was there (November), the Taxi's and buses were still diesel. I don't see them drinking from the same cup they're making everybody else drink from.

But they are. There's no ban on Diesel cars in London (or any other type of car). The ULEZ charge only applies to one particular type, old Diesel cars. London's buses and taxis are fine as long as they are not old (pre-2015) Diesel vehicles.

This is from last year:


And, as of April 2018, all new black cabs registered in London must be electric vehicles (which also means that they are ULEZ compliant). The old Diesel cabs have been slowly disappearing from London's roads since.

So it's definitely happening. Just not overnight. And I don't expect ULEZ to be further extended without sufficient notice either (years).
 
And, as of April 2018, all new black cabs registered in London must be electric vehicles (which also means that they are ULEZ compliant). The old Diesel cabs have been slowly disappearing from London's roads since.
Are the cabs EVs or hybrids?

The modern looking 'black cab' I saw the other day in Glasgow turned out to sort of claim to be an EV but was actually a hybrid.
 
So assuming that you live in a democracy, how does one organize against these actions in the UK?
 
The new black cabs are hybrids. Buddy of mine has one.


Technically speaking, these are 'Range Extenders'. The LEVC TX taxi has a Volvo 1.6L petrol engine that can't drive the wheels, it can only charge the battery, so it's in effect a portable charging station.


As things stand, it is rarely used, because running a cab is a business, and electricity is far cheaper than petrol. Plus, there are fast chargers around London dedicated to black cabs only, and cabbies get special rates at all public charging stations. If you talk to cabbies, they'll tell you they won't be caught dead using the petrol engine to charge the battery... in fact, one of them told me that he will only ever use it in an emergency, because he lives out of London and didn't fancy hanging around for another half our or so at a public charger at the end of his end of his day if the remaining battery charge is too low to get him back home. That said, I suspect they'll need to run the petrol engine from time to time, just to make sure it doest rust and seize...

But this Off Topic.... because ULEZ does not differentiate between Diesel, Petrol, Hybrid, Range Extender, or pure-EV vehicles.

So in essence, any black cab or bus that are newer than 2014 will be ULEZ complaint (whether they are electric or not). Again, it only pre-2015 Diesel cars that have to pay the £12.50 daily ULEZ charge, everyone else is exempt, and ther's no need to buy an EV, either....
 

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