Unwanted International Delivery, Options

[m80]

I bought an engine hoist through ebay, for a little under £210.
The location is shown as Chadderton (that's in M/cr).
Via the DHL tracking I now see it has cleared customs, so it would seem it has been despatched from Belgium.

I'm now assuming I would be liable for additional charges, although I haven't any such notification so far.

Can I reject the delivery and avoid additional charges?
Are there other options?

 

[markjay]

Not necessarily. The shipper can choose to pay all fees and taxes. I am not suggesting this is what they have actually done, but just to say that it's not a given that you'll have to pay duty or taxes.

 

[markjay]

And, in the event that a tax demand is issued by the courier to yourself, you can refuse delivery and request a full refund from the seller, or open a dispute on eBay.

 

[m80]

And, in the event that a tax demand is issued by the courier to yourself, you can refuse delivery and request a full refund from the seller, or open a dispute on eBay.

The possible issue there is that if the invoice is raised by DHL some time later, as seems to be possible / common, I've taken delivery and the ebay dispute time may have elapsed.

 

[markjay]

I suppose you could in theory be issued with a tax or fee payment demand by DHL more than 45 days after the eBay purchase date.

I think it's unlikely, but yes there is a potential issue there.

At any rate, I don't know to what extent such fees are actually recoverable (keeping in mind that any payment demand will come from DHL, not HMRC), and collecting small amounts is generally not commercially viable for the creditor.

But I don't see what option you have at this juncture, other than accept the delivery when it arrives - I don't think that you can reject an eBay purchase simply because additional fees may be applied in future?

As for the location of the stock, did the advert actually say that the item is shipped from the UK? The location of the item and location of the seller are two different things.

 

[m80]

Yes the 'item location' is stated as Chadderton.
The sellers address is indeed Belgium, but many sellers hold UK stocks. The Chinese often do this at storage facilities near Heathrow.

It is something I've been cautious of as additional charges will destroy any savings, then returns become more complicated. Since Brexit I've, so far, preferred not to buy from the eu. And American purchases are heavily weighted with postage costs.

I guess I'll consult with ebay customer services, they have been sympathetic to my queries in the past.

 

[BTB 500]

Not necessarily. The shipper can choose to pay all fees and taxes.

Presumably a separate bill for UK VAT, duty & handling would then get sent back to the sender some time after the package had been delivered in the UK? What would happen then if they simply didn't pay it?! Would DHL (or whoever) have already paid HMRC, or do they collect first and pass it on if/when received? As you mentioned it wouldn't normally make commercial sense for anyone to chase these small amounts after the event - the only way it would work reliably would be to hold the parcel until the fees had been paid (which was normal practice for stuff coming from outside the EU, pre-Brexit).

 

[m80]

Update re ebay.
Customer services confirm that if I am charged by DHL I may raise a case within 30 days, and potentially return.
As the item is 78Kg the seller would be responsible for collection.

The seller responded to my query to them with an inappropriate response "sorry for the delay.....". Possibly they are prevaricating.

Anyway 30 days should give me chance to use it and wait and see if 'they' have a problem.

 

[markjay]

Presumably a separate bill for UK VAT, duty & handling would then get sent back to the sender some time after the package had been delivered in the UK? What would happen then if they simply didn't pay it?! Would DHL (or whoever) have already paid HMRC, or do they collect first and pass it on if/when received? As you mentioned it wouldn't normally make commercial sense for anyone to chase these small amounts after the event - the only way it would work reliably would be to hold the parcel until the fees had been paid (which was normal practice for stuff coming from outside the EU, pre-Brexit).

When we shipped goods to Europe after Brexit, the parcel was held at the airport in Germany, and the courier (DHL) sent us a link to their website with payment demand.

We paid the German taxes to DHL online, and they then proceeded and delivered the package to the recipient.

The repient knew nothing of any of it, though obviously the whole process took a few days instead of overnight delivery like it was in the olden days.

Presumably the courier holds the goods in Bonded warehouse at the airport until the taxes are paid (by the sender or by the recipient).

 

[BTB 500]

When we shipped goods to Europe after Brexit, the parcel was held at the airport in Germany, and the courier (DHL) sent us a link to their website with payment demand.

We paid the German taxes to DHL online, and they then proceeded and delivered the package to the recipient.

The repient knew nothing of any of it, though obviously the whole process took a few days instead of overnight delivery like it was in the olden days.

Presumably the courier holds the goods in Bonded warehouse at the airport until the taxes are paid (by the sender or by the recipient).

With EU to UK stuff it seems increasingly common to receive a demand for VAT etc. by post some time after the parcel has been delivered. My guess is that they can't cope with holding / storing the increased volume of packages with VAT & duty to pay post-Brexit.

 

[markjay]

With EU to UK stuff it seems increasingly common to receive a demand for VAT etc. by post some time after the parcel has been delivered. My guess is that they can't cope with holding / storing the increased volume of packages with VAT & duty to pay post-Brexit.

Some years ago, we had guests from abroad staying at our house. Before they arrived, they ordered some electronic equipment from the US to be delivered to our home address, which they then took with them back home.

A few days after they left a letter arrived from the courier asking for payment (probably VAT and customs handling charge, not sure now). It was addressed to my guest, at our home address. I sent him the letter by fax, but I doubt that he paid it. I have not heard from the courier again.

I think that collecting small amounts of debth just isn't commercially practical.

 

[m80]

It would make more sense for any courier to refuse to deliver, or possibly even accept, the package until full dues are settled.
I can see issue with that in foreign destinations where to take payment for that country would then need to be forwarded. Then it would seem reasonable for the courier of that country to take the payment.

The issue in my scenario is my (or any recipient) being unaware of an outstanding payment to be settled later. That can be VAT and admin.

 

[vijilants]

If the value of the item is above £135 the courier holds the item until the duty and the customs handling charge is paid...this includes EU countries.

 

[BTB 500]

I think that collecting small amounts of debth just isn't commercially practical.

And if (as I suspect) the delivery company is only trying to recover money to pass on to HMRC then there isn't much incentive for them to chase (beyond the fixed 'handling fee' they're entitled to). If they had to pay HMRC the tax & duty due on arrival in the UK and then recover this from their customer I suspect they'd be rather more motivated (and wouldn't deliver the package till they had it!).

 

[BTB 500]

If the value of the item is above £135 the courier holds the item until the duty and the customs handling charge is paid...this includes EU countries.

That's not what is actually happening though. They are delivering then asking for the VAT/duty/handling charge some time afterwards.

 

[st13phil]

The bottom line is that it depends upon the Incoterms under which the goods are shipped. There's a good diagram that summarises the Point of Delivery and Transfer of Risk at the top of this page.

If the goods are shipped directly to the buyer, then unless the Incoterms used are DDP, the buyer is liable for any duties or taxes.

 

[vijilants]

That's not what is actually happening though. They are delivering then asking for the VAT/duty/handling charge some time afterwards.

I am speaking from personal eperience...that's what happened with me.....I ordered £350 worth of of goods from Germany and Parcelforce held it back until I paid the duty plus the customs handling charge and only then did they deliver.

Same happened with a friend of mine two weeks ago from Switzerland with a delivery via DHL.

 

[Steveml63]

The bottom line is that it depends upon the Incoterms under which the goods are shipped. There's a good diagram that summarises the Point of Delivery and Transfer of Risk at the top of this page.

If the goods are shipped directly to the buyer, then unless the Incoterms used are DDP, the buyer is liable for any duties or taxes.

I guess it also depends on where the item was supposed to be located when you purchased it through EBay.
If the seller states location is in UK and they only charge UK post & packing - then the buyer would rightly expect the goods to be despatched from the UK - and would be pretty miffed if goods came from overseas with associated duty & VAT costs.
It borders on deception if seller states they and goods are in one country - but are in fact overseas.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

Purely anecdotal but I find international deliveries have come without additional costs via Royal Mail but DHL etc have charged.

 

[m80]

It borders on deception if seller states they and goods are in one country - but are in fact overseas.

I see what you did there.

Further response from seller is
"There is no additional customs charges to the parcel. As we have checked using the tracking details, it is not yet delivered to you since we shipped the parcel from the warehouse."
as part of 2nd message.

As part of 3rd message
"Base on the tracking details, 2 of the parcels have already reached the parcel center in the UK and the other parcel has been handled by the GLS at the moment."

So anyone's guess what I'll get and when.
My mistake, it's via Parcel Force not DHL.
But tbh if the seller hasn't stated customs and whatever have been paid by them I wouldn't expect that they have. So additional charges are a reasonable expectation, we'll see.