Urgent Employment Advice

[Spinal]

I need some quick last minute advice...

one of my colleagues just got "the call" and he's in for a face-to-face redundancy meeting tomorrow morning.

I've been on a e-training course all day; so my phone has been occupied all day.

Can they just call me into an office tomorrow and give me the bad news, or do they need to "warn" me in advance?

The reason I ask is I do believe I'm allowed to bring a union rep with me to these meetings, and unfortunately, I can't find the contact details of my local rep right now... so tomorrow I'll call the main office and get them from them; but... gah, it's all very last minute and incredibly stressful!

M.

 

[markjay]

Need to warn, usually 24h, because you have the right to bring someone with you (e.g. union representative or whoever you choose).

 

[markjay]

...and I am saying this as an employer.... we have to play it by the book or we get done over in the tribunal.

 

[markjay]

Actually... for redundancy it is a little different;

'The first meeting is to warn you that your job is potentially redundant. You do not have the right to take a colleague or trade union representative with you to this meeting but many employers will allow you to do so.
Make sure you know why it is your job that is at risk of redundancy and tell your employer if you think there are alternatives to redundancy (such as reduced hours or suitable alternative employment). Ask who else is being considered for redundancy. If you think some individuals or groups of workers should also be at risk let your employer know. If you are being compared with other employees make sure you understand on what basis selection for redundancy will be made. If you do not think the proposed selection process is fair, say so.

The second meeting is to tell you if you have been selected for redundancy. You are entitled to take a colleague or trade union representative with you to this meeting.
Ask if your employer has considered whether there are any alternative jobs. If your employer has assessed you as part of a redundancy selection process you should be told your scores. Ask for a copy of your score and the scores of anyone else with whom you have been compared. You may need the meeting to be adjourned to give you time to check the scores. If you think you have been incorrectly assessed or that someone else should have assessed you tell your employer why.'

 

[Spinal]

Great - thanks.

It's a messed up situation actually... it's a group redundancy, we were all put at risk about 7 months ago.

Then the group redundancy consultation period ended, and we ended up in TUPE consultation instead.

The company I was due to TUPE to today pulled out of TUPE on Friday, so now I have a feeling I'll be made redundant.

I'm curious as I was under the impression that they would need to redo the group consultation as that ended and was done with, but hey...

I really need to find the contact details!

M.

 

[Merco]

Really sorry to hear what's going on Spinal. It's a crappy situation. Here's hoping things are going to be OK and you've got something lined up if the worst happens. Thinking of you tomorrow mate...

 

[markjay]

Be aware that if you have practically been working for one client (e.g. you are employed by company A but spent almost all your time on premises of company B who contracted company A's services...) , and you are made redundant (by your employer - company A), you may have a TUPE claim against that client (company B). Sounds odd, I know.

 

[Dryce]

Be aware that if you have practically been working for one client (e.g. you are employed by company A but spent almost all your time on premises of company B who contracted company A's services...) , and you are made redundant (by your employer - company A), you may have a TUPE claim against that client (company B). Sounds odd, I know.

Cite a case without special circumstances and I'll believe this.

Any time I've been at either end of this sort of arrangement the contractual details have very explicitly and unambiguously set out who is employed by whom and who is contracted services from whom.

 

[markjay]

Cite a case without special circumstances and I'll believe this.

Any time I've been at either end of this sort of arrangement the contractual details have very explicitly and unambiguously set out who is employed by whom and who is contracted services from whom.

Almost been hit by this myself (as employer), an employee's statuary rights can not be waved a way by contract...

 

[Palfrem]

If you were supposed to TUPE into a new firm - what has changed?
TUPE rules are very specific.

 

[corned]

If you were supposed to TUPE into a new firm - what has changed?
TUPE rules are very specific.

See this:

The company I was due to TUPE to today pulled out of TUPE on Friday, so now I have a feeling I'll be made redundant.

The new firm pulled out of the deal.

 

[MarkJunedd]

This has happened to me twice in the last three years. On the first occasion the meeting was to inform of the possibility of redundancy. A week later the second was me being told that I was made redundant. Unfortunately if the company follows the procedural guidelines then that's that. I went from a very well paid job ,with fully expensed company car to job centre in less than 10 days, along with 30 other people who had no idea it was coming. You have my sympathy.

 

[Spinal]

If you were supposed to TUPE into a new firm - what has changed?
TUPE rules are very specific.

The third party firm decided that their internal governance didn't feel that the whole thing was kosher. Rather odd actually, as now they've emailed everyone that was originally part of the TUPE deal inviting us to an open day... very weird methinks....

Oh well, as well as I still have a job that allows me to cross the desert in December, I'll be happy!

M.

 

[flango]

Sorry to hear this but there is no legal requirement to warn you of the topic of the first meeting be it redundancy, disciplinary or promotion.

 

[DITTRICH]

The third party firm decided that their internal governance didn't feel that the whole thing was kosher. Rather odd actually, as now they've emailed everyone that was originally part of the TUPE deal inviting us to an open day... very weird methinks....

Oh well, as well as I still have a job that allows me to cross the desert in December, I'll be happy!

M.

Ah, so they believe that it is better for the old firm to make you redundant, so they can then negotiate better terms with the individuals concerned! (better for them not you). TUPE should be avoided like the kiss of death because you end up taking on people with different terms and conditions to the rest of the workforce thereby causing resentment. So, you might still have "a job" but they want you to do it for less money.

My2c

 

[Palfrem]

Seems odd that the new mob went to the wire before pulling the plug.

Usually there's an army of "due diligence" bods reporting before a date gets given.

Is your existing company solvent? Too many creditors? Too few orders in the pipeline?

What made it attractive to a new mob in the first place? Could there be more takers in the wings?

I've been re-structured, downsized, outsourced, do less with less, etc. 4 times now - so don't loose heart if redundancy is the end result. How long have you worked with this firm?

 

[Spinal]

My existing company is quite... active... It's one of othe largest 3 software developers in the world, (the largest that doesn't make operating systems I believe... one of our products has 65% of the market... and no, it's not Microsoft.). If you're "in the field" I'm sure you've heard of us as we expand by buying then streamlining.

Why were we being sold? In a nutshell, from what I understood, we (the consulting teams) became too prominent and were making too much money. As consultants, we advised clients on what the best solution for the client would be. We had no ties to sell <company name> software. This was quite explicit...

That said, when we started advising some larger clients that in their specific scenario, our competitors products were more suited, this raised a few eyebrows. A quick tactical change later, and we don't have consultants anymore, but "Technical Sales Specialists". Consultants could either apply for the new role or be TUPE'd to a "parter" (partners were chosen based on how much of our software they sold if I understood correctly).

I've worked with this firm for about 1 year, so not long enough to get a decent redundancy package... the good news is, another one of the TUPE companies has jumped in and is buying the projects/clients I'm handling, so it would appear that I'm going over to another company...

Looks like I panicked too soon... another challenge - another opportunity!

M.

 

[Noodle-Pulp]

It's also worth asking straight out what could be done to save your position.
A bit obvious but not everyone thinks of it at the time.

 

[trapperjohn]

You did not panic too soon. To fail to plan is to plan to fail - or something like that.

Good Luck.

 

[A-AvantGarde]

the good news is, another one of the TUPE companies has jumped in and is buying the projects/clients I'm handling, so it would appear that I'm going over to another company...

Looks like I panicked too soon... another challenge - another opportunity!

M.

That sounds good, hope things work out for you...