USA Geared up for conflict in Ukraine.

[m80]

A common theme in your posts seems to be that wars etc. are set up to simply make people money. I could be mistaken of course, but if not do you really believe that all ills are simply engineered to make the rich richer?

Maybe I need proof read my scribblings to be sure I don't misrepresent my own opinion.

No not all wars.

1st world war was due to ally agreements, 'a' will fight with 'b' because 'c' has attacked 'b'.
'd' might have a problem because they had agreed to be ally to 'c' and also 'a'. All designed to deter war and keep peaceful harmony(ish)
Anyway one person goes bye bye and the world wants to kill everyone else.
The NATO ally agreement is v different because all members are signed up to the same agreement.

2nd world war was about the power of 1 man, and his 3rd Reich. But may be said was due to the humiliating way Germany was treated post the WW1 defeat.
There is a financial twist that aided us to beat the Germans though. But I don't feel we won that war.

Vietnam was to bring down Communist expansion, it isn't western, it isn't democratic, it must be wrong.
Is there a similarity to the religious crusades perhaps.
How the hell Vietnam forgave after that I'll never understand.

Was Iraq about anything other than oil?

Isn't the lend lease to Ukraine cause to question some motives?
Does the oil below the Donbas, along with many other resources provide motive to want Ukraine within a sphere of influence? That of course applies to west and east.

Where I can't argue for a Russian moral high ground is that 'if' the West have out manoeuvred Putin, this time, and he has fallen for their style of ambush, he did this willingly. There being little or no choice in the face of NATO expansion isn't going to be agreed on here.

If and when the West gain a 'victory' over Russia that leaves Russia subservient it is what the West does there after that becomes more important.

 

[190]

I am questioning if Russia have been set up to take a pounding.

Possibly they have in the sense that they have got a financial pounding already and after what Putins done, the sanctions will not be lifted any time soon so the pounding will continue. I suspect there will be a serious backlash from voters for any government too eager to cosy back up to Russia even for good financial reasons and I will be one of those voters.

I can understand the west wanting to keep Russia from getting too strong but invasion and control is impossible in a country of that size. To think otherwise would make us a crazy as Putin. Surrounding Russia with NATO countries is containment of the Bear, not as mad Putin thinks a preparation for invasion.

As long as Russia is run by megalomaniacs we will have to surround it with an iron curtain leaving them nowhere to expand in to. As far as I'm concerned they can then rot until they come to their senses.

 

[E55BOF]

Over time, and not that long, more Crimean's appreciate an improved life style due to Russian created improvements, more approve of Russia's presence.

Maybe I need proof read my scribblings to be sure I don't misrepresent my own opinion.

No not all wars.

1st world war was due to ally agreements, 'a' will fight with 'b' because 'c' has attacked 'b'.
'd' might have a problem because they had agreed to be ally to 'c' and also 'a'. All designed to deter war and keep peaceful harmony(ish)
Anyway one person goes bye bye and the world wants to kill everyone else.
The NATO ally agreement is v different because all members are signed up to the same agreement.

2nd world war was about the power of 1 man, and his 3rd Reich. But may be said was due to the humiliating way Germany was treated post the WW1 defeat.
There is a financial twist that aided us to beat the Germans though. But I don't feel we won that war.

Vietnam was to bring down Communist expansion, it isn't western, it isn't democratic, it must be wrong.
Is there a similarity to the religious crusades perhaps.
How the hell Vietnam forgave after that I'll never understand.

Was Iraq about anything other than oil?

Isn't the lend lease to Ukraine cause to question some motives?
Does the oil below the Donbas, along with many other resources provide motive to want Ukraine within a sphere of influence? That of course applies to west and east.

Where I can't argue for a Russian moral high ground is that 'if' the West have out manoeuvred Putin, this time, and he has fallen for their style of ambush, he did this willingly. There being little or no choice in the face of NATO expansion isn't going to be agreed on here.

If and when the West gain a 'victory' over Russia that leaves Russia subservient it is what the West does there after that becomes more important.

Of course the population of Crimea are better off under the Russians; so much so that when the rest of Ukraine had the chance to be the same, they welcomed their liberators with open arms? Not exactly...

Do I understand that your position is that Putin invaded Ukraine as a counter to possible NATO expansion? The wishes of the great majority of Ukrainian citizens are irrelevant to him, of course; that's how the Russian system of government works, is it not? One man, one vote; at the moment Putin is the man and he has the vote...

Oil has nothing to do with it; stopping Putin's Russia from invading and taking effective control of another sovereign state, just as they did half of Europe after WW II, is what it's all about in the short term.

The Russians took Crimea; the West did nothing. The Russians took Donetsk and Luhansk; the West did nothing. The Russians tried to take Ukraine; the West woke up.

It's ironic, really, that Putin's great gamble has left Russia potentially far more threatened by a resurgent NATO than it has been for decades.

Let us hope that NATO does not go to sleep again, and that Russia gets rid of Putin, and the Russians then behave reasonably and can rejoin the civilised world.

And finally... "America have been a great part of the build up with their HATE aircraft.
Did they pull out of Afghanistan with this in mind, as preparation?"

Words fail me...

 

[davymead]

Putting ourselves up as a bastion of hope and direction for the worlds future might not be a great idea at this particular moment in time. I have nothing but revulsion for the likes of any despot, Putin being the latest in a long line, but clearly any idea the West might have of surrounding him with a plethora of sophisticated weaponry is both crass and highly dangerous. Each day goes by with the media suggesting countries now seemingly lining up to join NATO can only ramp up his feelings of desperation. I am I must confess beginning to feel uncomfortable about just how far things might deteriorate in this conflict. A rat in a corner …..

 

[Bellow]

No matter that Putin has pushed gas prices to astronomic levels, there's at least one member here who can warm his house burning American flags.

 

[m80]

No matter that Putin has pushed gas prices to astronomic levels, there's at least one member here who can warm his house burning American flags.

I'm aware he is now selling his gas in rubbles, to those that have fallen out with him,
but since the rubble has descended in value wouldn't that reduce the gas price as exchanged from whatever?

But aside from me not buying the flag you 'aint far wrong.
I wouldn't buy a Rooskie flag either. Mind they might come part scorched.

 

[E55BOF]

He's trying where possible to sell his gas in roubles. Hard currency has to be used to buy those roubles on the international market, thus bolstering the value of the rouble.

 

[Dryce]

As I've said from early on in this,
'I believe' Ukraine are the piggies in the middle of a building conflict between east and west.

I am questioning if Russia have been set up to take a pounding.
Surprised, but a pounding looks increasingly likely, but I'm worried about what the cornered bear may respond with.
I feel Russia may well suffer greatly in the years to come.

What is it you guys think I need to defend?

I think you miss the point.

You have a vicious foolish despot who thinks that Ukraine should not be a sovereign nation.

He then uses his army to try and take over Ukraine and is willing to kill and maim its people and destroy its cities and waste the lives of his own armed forces to achieve that aim.

This vicious foolish despot has threatened *us* and he has and is specifically threatening Sweden and Finland.

And you want to spread blame elsewhere?

I'm sorry - in my book that is straying into the territory of being an apologist for a vicious foolish despot.

 

[E55BOF]

We should remember that Putin is not Russia and Russia is not Putin, though. It is inherent in the Russian system of (mis)government that the great mass of the people have no say in the leader's decisions, but suffer the consequences anyway. This is very much Putin's war, but Russia has effectively no alternative but to follow where he leads.

 

[190]

Here's some good news, the Russians have admitted that the damaged war ship has now sunk while being towed back to port, although they are still not admitting it was due to a missile attack.

Russia says Moskva warship has sunk: State media

 

[GeeJayW]

Here's some good news, the Russians have admitted that the damaged war ship has now sunk while being towed back to port, although they are still not admitting it was due to a missile attack.

Russia says Moskva warship has sunk: State media

Hard to which is worse publicity for them isn’t it?

Ukrainian forces sink Black Sea Flagship
In a statement, our defence correspondent said: “Those nasty neo nazi Ukrainians got lucky and sank our heroic flagship, probably with American weapons built using stolen Russian technology!!

versus

Flagship and pride of the Russian Black Sea fleet sh!t itself, blew up and sank
Our defence minister included the following in his statement: “It first appeared that one of our heroic sailors nipped behind a bulkhead for a quick ciggie and accidentally started a fire in one of the missile magazines and before you knew it, something went bang. We’ve since found out that he was an undercover operative from the USA, so this was clearly an act of sabotage and a war crime as the ship was undergoing a peaceful mission to liberate Ukraine from its neo nazi administration.”

 

[whitenemesis]

In a statement, our defence correspondent said: “Those nasty neo nazi Ukrainians got lucky and sank our heroic flagship, probably with American weapons built using stolen Russian technology!!

Makes it even worse, the fact it was a Ukrainian designed and built missile!

 

[GeeJayW]

Makes it even worse, the fact it was a Ukrainian designed and built missile!

Yep, I know it was. I was suggesting that the Russians might put some spin on the story in the usual way…

 

[st13phil]

Makes it even worse, the fact it was a Ukrainian designed and built missile!

It’s better than that. The Moskva was built in a Ukraine shipyard when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union.

 

[whitenemesis]

It’s better than that. The Moskva was built in a Ukraine shipyard when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union.

 

[st13phil]

The Moskva was the largest (and most powerful from an armament point of view) warship sunk since WWII.

No doubt there will be spin put on the loss by the Russians. I just saw this quip elsewhere:

I'm sure we will soon hear from the Putin apologists that the sinking of the Moskva was all part of Putin's cunning plan to reduce Ukrainian forces in the Donbas by making them hurt themselves in raucous celebration.

 

[E55BOF]

I wouldn't think either that the Moskva was close in to shore and detected by Ukrainian shore-based radar, or that the missiles (active radar homers) were simply launched on spec in the general direction of the battle group's last known position. I can't help wondering where the Ukrainians obtained their targeting data from. Hmmm.....

 

[whitenemesis]

Russian military claimed the ship was hit by missiles after Ukraine used Bayraktar drones to distract its radar warning systems

Russian warship Moskva is hit by Ukrainian missile and explodes

Russia's Black Sea flagship - the Soviet-era guided missile cruiser Moskva - has been evacuated after Ukraine claimed to have struck it with two Neptune anti-ship missiles.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[davymead]

I wouldn't think either that the Moskva was close in to shore and detected by Ukrainian shore-based radar, or that the missiles (active radar homers) were simply launched on spec in the general direction of the battle group's last known position. I can't help wondering where the Ukrainians obtained their targeting data from. Hmmm.....

Quite mesmerising watching just how many US UK and NATO aircraft are constantly patrolling. Providing Info

 

[SpikyMikey]

Quite mesmerising watching just how many US UK and NATO aircraft are constantly patrolling. Providing Info

What is incredible is the endurance of the Global Hawk UAV that regularly patrols the Black Sea for hours and hours and hours.
I see this morning that one of the big boys is out and about: