Vegetable oil for my 300D

[Charles Morgan]

Popped into Quality Stores, a great indian food retailer / wholesaler, for some things for dinner and noticed that I could buy veg oil for just over £1 a litre in 20 litre cans (rapeseed and sunflower oil was a bit more expensive, but not much) and thought, 40 p a litre saving is nothing to be sniffed at. Apart from helping kill man-bear-pig and saving the Polar bear (ok, so the odd Orang Utan gets it), wandering around in an odour of even greater sanctimony without the smell of the deep fat fryer, is there anything I should do to it before I slosh it in the tank (other than test it out on a wee black 300d 12 valve on the drive*)?

It certainly saves fiddling round with used smelly stuff....

* just joking TJ...

 

[trapperjohn]

Splutters on cup of tea.

Before any cooking phat goes any where near your beautiful unmolested 24v Estate Charles. Slosh it into that 12v and see if you like what you get.

Silver Saloon and Aandyy will be along soon to tell you how its done. There is some sort of veggie forum for abusers of Mercedes Benz

Winter is not the best time to experiment with cooking phat as you have to mix it with petrol or real diesel I do believe.

Make sure you have plenty of fuel filters on stand-by as cooking phat strips the lining of fuel tanks so I am informed. Once you have got rid of all that gunk I think you are clear and free to go. Taking the tank strainer out of an estate tank is not easy I believe. So go with the 12v saloon first.

CHEERS

 

[AANDYY]

Hi, Charles, John has said it all really.
As for new veg oil stripping the lining of the fuel tank, I'm not to sure on, I know that waste veg oil does, it did on mine, I've had to clean my tank strainer 3 times , a proper pain but the savings are worth it after 45k miles of virtually free fuel . O rings can deteriorate when running WVO, dunno about new veg oil running.
Have a look here for good free advice -

vegetableoildiesel.co.uk - Powered by XMB

I think now you have to be a member to read some pages.

 

[bolide]

Vegetable oil has lower lubricity than diesel - at least according to an oil company alternative fuels engineer I spoke to - so it'd be wise to mix it with diesel to lubricate the diesel pump

I believe most of the people using alternative fuels run 50/50 in winter and a higher percentage of veg in the summer. Veg tends to wax more in cold weather than diesel. Fuel companies change their diesel formula in cold weather to help with waxing

Nick Froome

 

[Charles Morgan]

sounds like more research required, but I am doing about 500 miles a week at present, and cheaper fuel would go down well.

 

[trapperjohn]

In all and true seriousness Charles try it in the 12V before you go anywhere near your 24V. If you have to change the tank strainer on the estate I think (not sure) it is a total pain and it could let you down road side. SilverSaloon is your man for contact on this. There is (I believe) stuff you can pour into a tank to stop the veggie stripping off the inside coating. It is something used in the Marine world (boating not Royal) Druk would be your man for this or the Veggie Forum.
Carry spare diesel filters and pre diesel filters at all times.

 

[Dieselman]

You will lose about 10-20% mpg running on veg. People will say you won't but you will as it has a lower calorific value.

 

[Dieselman]

If you have to change the tank strainer on the estate I think (not sure) it is a total pain and it could let you down road side.

The tank strainer on an estate is child's play, the one on the saloon is more involved due to the diff being in the way.

 

[trapperjohn]

There you go Charles cancel part of my last. But please not the 24V

 

[Charles Morgan]

You will lose about 10-20% mpg running on veg. People will say you won't but you will as it has a lower calorific value.

That makes sense, and as lard is not, regrettably, an option, looks like its tour the local takeaways for waste oil time.

 

[Scott_F]

You will lose about 10-20% mpg running on veg. People will say you won't but you will as it has a lower calorific value.

Diesel is about £1.40 per litre. If your effeciency reduces by 20% is it really worth running a car on "new" vegetable oil costing just over £1 per litre ? For a gain of 12p a litre there are downsides of frequent filter changes, funny smells etc.

 

[Dieselman]

Diesel is about £1.40 per litre. If your effeciency reduces by 20% is it really worth running a car on "new" vegetable oil costing just over £1 per litre ? For a gain of 12p a litre there are downsides of frequent filter changes, funny smells etc.

To me...No. The inconvenience is also a factor.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Has to be WVO.

 

[bolide]

So that's a Chicken Balti Tikka Masala, Mutter Paneer, Peshwari Nan - and 450 litres of used cooking oil?

Nick Froome

 

[BEJ]

Friend of mine runs a Rover (with a BMW engine) on a mixture of about 2 thirds diesel to 1 third cooking oil with no problems at all.

 

[Charles Morgan]

So that's a Chicken Balti Tikka Masala, Mutter Paneer, Peshwari Nan - and 450 litres of used cooking oil?

Nick Froome

The heart attack wouldn't come from the cost of the fuel in that case! Although I think even an old fashioned diesel might seize up running on reheated ghee.

In an area which has a very large population from the Indian sub-continent I am absolutely staggered that I have not yet found a decent Indian restaurant, yet in Southall, only 10 miles away, there are hundreds.

 

[SilverSaloon]

Well i've done near 70,000 on more-or less 100% SVO and WVO (last 2 years) in my green 1994 E300 multivalve estate and my silver 1994 E300 multivalve estate has done about 2,000 miles now on the stuff. over the past 4 years running it i have had to:

- replace clear pipes & orings (easy enough)
- renew delivery valve seals (also easy but care to be taken!)
- renew glow plugs - the Bosch duraterms i've fitted now are 1 year old now and havnt gone yet so i'd recommend them
- lift pump one-way valves - i dont think this needed doing to be honest but i had airleak problems that took a while to pinpoint
- i clean my pre-filter and check the tank strainer every 6 months or so.... main filter change about every 2 months, more in summer
- i had a blockage in the metal fuel pipe which cleared by blowing air back through it
- main feed/return pipes replaced as they crack at the ends

all this stuff is easy enough to do but usually need doing at inconviennt times - i DIY it but i suspect a garage would charge quite a bit to do all this and you'd probably have to sit through a big lecture on how your fuel pump will self destruct. mines fine and with the money i save every year i can buy another car every year let alone any engine parts that may or may not be required, so i take the risk, but i also carry the burdon aswell (messy, oily, heating the oil, lugging it to the car, stopping off at takeaways, incovienient repairs etc etc)....

As DM says, estate tank strainer is easiest - but if you have the genuine MB towbar then thats in the way and you need to unbolt it and move it aside to get access (but its only 10 mins extra on the job).

the veg forum andy links to is best.

at the very least you will need to replace orings at various stages and filters more regularly, but its easy enough when you know how.

i dont notice any difference between MPG running on WVO, SVO or Diesel - certainly not 30% difference.

you need to do more research before tipping any in Charles as you WILL need to do some preventive maintenance (or roadside fix if you dont!!)

if you do the Waste oil route, make sure you have somewhere to process it - ie a garden shed etc that is only used for the oil as its a messy business and you'll find the oil gets everywhere so sharing it with you tools/garden stuff is a no no. it will be hard to find waste oil anyway - most of it will be already taken.

i did a big trip this week (1000 miles) and had to go to Booker and Tesco for my oil as i wasnt able to filter enough in time (last minute trip) - some clubcard points and special offer got the SVO down to 75p a litre delivered at Tesco and it was 90p a litre in Booker.

Feel free to PM me if you want.

Derek

 

[Ducato]

Hi Guys! Here is a reply from Sweden. I have read through your tread here and find several errors in statements and belief. Almost all cars can run on WVO/SVO.
A few limits, that is cars with ACDelco, CAV and Delphi pumps. In USA they have a pump called Stanadyne. That one is not either suitable.

As long as you do everything the correct way, there is NO REASON what so ever not to drive in waste veggie oil. Remember you use a products which is a waste, and in most cases thrown down the pipes or out in the nature, if not burned in oil burners.

The veggie oil lubricate the same as Diesel. In fact, if you heat diesel today, it lubricate much less now because of reduced sulfur in diesel. Several new trucks and bus brands ADD a liquid to the injection pump and nozzles to lubricate the mechanical parts.

You do NOT loose effect by using veggie oil as said at the forum.
The smell from your exhaust is like when you make pancakes, and the exhaust is much more CLEAN than from Diesel! We have had controls here by authorities in Sweden, where the controller had no idea that the engine was running on wvo. They believed their equipment was incorrect, because it should not be possible to have such clean exhaust from a diesel engine!

If you do not want to convert your car, you may blend your WVO with either diesel or petrol.
You may blend diesel from 5% up to 90% if you want and depends of temperature.
But remember that when temperatures goes low, the diesel and wvo may split up again, and the wvo will get thicker than dieel, and sink down at the ottom of the tank. This may cause your pipes and filters clog. But as long as you keep them well mixed, there is no problem. Just don't fill up your tank, but keep a minimum in your tank, and keep the rest on a 20 l container.
For blend with petrol, you may mix up to 10%

If you choose to convert your car, you need an extra tank in the trunk, a small membrane pump, a heated filter and valves to switch over between diesel and wvo.
The you can drive your engine all year around. When you have very cold weather, like minus degrees C. You start your engine on diesel, switch over to wvo, and vise versa when stop.

If you visit, Selko Motor you will find a lot of information and pictures.
The text is in Norwegian, but Google will easily translate what u like to read today.

Myself has 10 years of experience with wvo, and ha saved thousands of pound in fuel through the years. And no harm to my motor.

Any questions is welcome.

 

[Ducato]

Next question is, how to clean WVO?
WVO is used, and may have many kind of dirt in it. Thsi dirt may be filtrated out or use a mix of heat and centrifuge.
Often you will have water in the oil too, and water dissolved spices.
To remove this is done by heating the oir so the water evaporate. At the same time you use a centrifuge, and you will remove all waste from the oil. A heater on the CF will heat the oil up to 80 C. and make the oil thisn as diesel. You will be able to clean 120 l oil/hr. by this one. So visit restaurants or other businesses who use SVO and ask for their oil. Clean it and use it as fuel. It will probably cost you less than 0.1 £/l

The mentioned centrifuge, is called Raw Power Centrifuge. Selko Motor sell it over entire EU, and also has the CE registration.
You will find it on their home page. the cost to UK is around 1130£.

The advantage with this Cf is that it is mobile, need no pressure to run, has a very high speed, 6000 rpm, and cleans oil down to cigarette smoke.

If you guys find used hydraulic or transformer oil, you may even run your engine on the very same. Just heat it up so you reduce the viscosity.

Cheers!

 

[bolide]

I defer to the professionals in the fuel industry re lubricating properties

It is true that the 603 and 606 Mercedes diesel engines & variants will burn almost anything. I think the grief you get along the way will be caused by other factors - blocked fuel lines, water in the fuel, low lubricity, gummed rings, etc - and the amount of grief you suffer will be related directly to the quality & purity of the fuel you use

Nick Froome