Veggie Oil in E300 Turbodiesel

[Will]

And the biggest question yet, is it legal!

Maybe part of the reason why it is having a lid kept on it by the government? (Hard to control veggie oil - doesn't come red from the shops!)

Are there some tax evasion issues here?!?

Just curious!

Will

 

[Dieselman]

As an aside, did you know that it has been the case that Mercedes dealers have secretly changed fuel pumps for new ones free on some CDi vehicles at different service intervals to send the pumps back for analysis? long term durability really is still an issue.


Is it legal to run your vehicle on Vege oil?

I know some pumps have been changed both before and after failure.

My understanding is that the vehicles in question have been running on regular pump diesel, not biodiesel.

Peugeot too had a high pump failure rate soon after switching to CR injection, and I believe Ford did too due to poor case hardening.

Yes you can run your car on veggie oil but you should declare the amount use to C&E to pay the duty.

 

[steptoe]

And the biggest question yet, is it legal!

Will

yes, its perfectly legal, just give the bills to your accountant, or if PAYE, just enter it in your tax return ( your local tax office will give you all the information you need) - you pay the tax on what you use -it still works out a huge saving if your doing lots of miles

 

[Will]

yes, its perfectly legal, just give the bills to your accountant, or if PAYE, just enter it in your tax return ( your local tax office will give you all the information you need) - you pay the tax on what you use -it still works out a huge saving if your doing lots of miles

But as with anything that is open to abuse, how many people actually bother to fully declare what they use?!? I am sure that many (if not a majority) of people who use veggie-type fuels don't declare this!

Perhaps this is part of the reason the veggie-revolution has not been encouraged more by the government!

Just food for thought (or fuel )

Cheers,

Will

 

[Satch]

But as with anything that is open to abuse, how many people actually bother to fully declare what they use?!? I am sure that many (if not a majority) of people who use veggie-type fuels don't declare this!

Perhaps this is part of the reason the veggie-revolution has not been encouraged more by the government!

Just food for thought (or fuel )

Cheers,

Will

Motorists have been arrested and their vehicles wrongly impounded for this very reason. Customs do send teams around market towns dipping tanks for red diesel and also use their noses to sniff for chippy type smells (try that on the M25).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,878122,00.html

Legal if you self account for the Road Fuel Duty. Otherwise the great money grabbing monster that is Customs & Excise will hunt you down and grind you to dust, evil doer!

 

[glojo]

Motorists have been arrested and their vehicles wrongly impounded for this very reason. Customs do send teams around market towns dipping tanks for red diesel and also use their noses to sniff for chippy type smells (try that on the M25).

Hi Satch,
That link was certainly interesting reading. I always believe that 'when a journalist comes through the door, the truth goes out the window'

Quote
"""Over there it is a sizeable industry, supported by tax breaks; it is no coincidence that Mercedes and Volkswagen engines are the most cooking-oil tolerant on the market. Indeed Mercedes motors are so accommodating that they will, apparently, run on lard. """
Unquote

I wonder if you slice the lard first

I have no experience of how Customs and Excise view vegetable oil, but providing your vehicle has a road fund license (excise license) Customs and Excise have the right to enter your private property and test your vehicles fuel to see if it has revenue paid diesel

If my brand new 320CDI is found to have red diesel in the tank, Customs and Excise have the right to possess the vehicle and put it up for public auction before I am even prosecuted!!!!!

In fact I have knowledge of where the owner purchased back his OWN vehicle at Glass's Guide Trade price, and also agreed a revenue figure with the Customs to avoid prosecution!!!!!

If you think our Police have too much power then think again, Customs and Excise ARE Big Brother.

Psssss Do you want to buy some cheap diesel

I have no knowledge of excise duty, and vegetable oil, but it seems a shame if users are being treated differently from the users of LPG. The government will even give grants for vehicles to be adapted to use it. Plus Volvo developed a range of vehicles that run off natural gas??? Perhaps you will have a special meter fitted to the domestic gas meter???

Regards,
John

 

[Dieselman]

Hi Satch,
Quote
"""Over there it is a sizeable industry, supported by tax breaks; it is no coincidence that Mercedes and Volkswagen engines are the most cooking-oil tolerant on the market. Indeed Mercedes motors are so accommodating that they will, apparently, run on lard. """
Unquote

I wonder if you slice the lard first

If my brand new 320CDI is found to have red diesel in the tank, Customs and Excise have the right to possess the vehicle and put it up for public auction before I am even prosecuted!!!!!


I have no knowledge of excise duty, and vegetable oil, but it seems a shame if users are being treated differently from the users of LPG. The government will even give grants for vehicles to be adapted to use it. Plus Volvo developed a range of vehicles that run off natural gas??? Perhaps you will have a special meter fitted to the domestic gas meter???

Regards,
John

I wonder if you slice the lard first

No simply heat it so it becomes liquid.

You can run a vehicle on any fuel as long as you pay C&E the appropriate duty.

Stricly speaking anything you pour into the tank is classed as fuel, so if you make a car run on a diesel/water mix, it is subject to duty on the whole quantity of the fuel, including the water.

 

[samuelellis]

i havent read all this but i was sure reading someware that as biodiesel and running on veg oil is pretty populair ing ermany that the mb diesel lumps are some of the best to run on alternative fuel (i even heared in theory you could use liquid lard in a merc engine)

i ahve a peaugot lump in my high milage derv burner (still no merc) and ia m giving serious though to running it on diesel/veg oil mix

or buy a old series 3 diesel land rover and use that engine to experiment with it (and ahve some fun off road )

 

[glojo]

I wonder if you slice the lard first

No simply heat it so it becomes liquid.

One of us is not thinking this through. Great idea, brilliant, I will heat up the lard for you. BUT I will not un-bung your tubes

When lard cools it goes back to a solid. If you were silly enough to melt lard, as soon as it touched the cold sides of the fuel pipe\tank it would go solid.

We all appreciate you can melt lard and it will turn into an oil.

I have always maintained, there are some very knowledgeable contributors to this thread whose opinions I value, but lard as a fuel.......

Regards,
John

 

[Satch]

I have always maintained, there are some very knowledgeable contributors to this thread whose opinions I value, but lard as a fuel.......

Regards,
John

It is just a more goopy form of hydrocarbon and is used as the base for a diesel biofuel. Needs to get much the same treatment as the veggie oil to break it down into a simpler Methyl Ester compound.

So in theory you could run a diesel off the treated grease filter scrapings from McDonalds. Lovely.

 

[griffin5]

Hi Satch,
That link was certainly interesting reading. I always believe that 'when a journalist comes through the door, the truth goes out the window'

Quote
"""Over there it is a sizeable industry, supported by tax breaks; it is no coincidence that Mercedes and Volkswagen engines are the most cooking-oil tolerant on the market. Indeed Mercedes motors are so accommodating that they will, apparently, run on lard. """
Unquote

I wonder if you slice the lard first

I have no experience of how Customs and Excise view vegetable oil, but providing your vehicle has a road fund license (excise license) Customs and Excise have the right to enter your private property and test your vehicles fuel to see if it has revenue paid diesel

If my brand new 320CDI is found to have red diesel in the tank, Customs and Excise have the right to possess the vehicle and put it up for public auction before I am even prosecuted!!!!!

In fact I have knowledge of where the owner purchased back his OWN vehicle at Glass's Guide Trade price, and also agreed a revenue figure with the Customs to avoid prosecution!!!!!

If you think our Police have too much power then think again, Customs and Excise ARE Big Brother.

Psssss Do you want to buy some cheap diesel

I have no knowledge of excise duty, and vegetable oil, but it seems a shame if users are being treated differently from the users of LPG. The government will even give grants for vehicles to be adapted to use it. Plus Volvo developed a range of vehicles that run off natural gas??? Perhaps you will have a special meter fitted to the domestic gas meter???

Regards,
John

Don't laugh at the plug into the mains gas.I think Honda have already developed this and you buy a special adapter to fill up and liquidize the fuel overnight!!!!

 

[glojo]

It is just a more goopy form of hydrocarbon and is used as the base for a diesel biofuel. Needs to get much the same treatment as the veggie oil to break it down into a simpler Methyl Ester compound.

So in theory you could run a diesel off the treated grease filter scrapings from McDonalds. Lovely.

I think we all have agreed that diesel engines will run on most combustible liquids, and there might be some liquids branded as 'lard', BUT lard is according to the Oxford Dictionary... ****noun fat from the abdomen of a pig, rendered and clarified for use in cooking*** and before you ask, clarify means to separate out the impurities. (I bet you knew, but thick old me never )

When I was little we used to have lard and pepper sandwiches Fat from the abdomen of a pig


****Don't laugh at the plug into the mains gas.I think Honda have already developed this and you buy a special adapter to fill up and liquidize the fuel overnight!!!!******

Volvo really did produce an engine for the 850 that worked off Natural Gas

Regards,
John

 

[Dieselman]

One of us is not thinking this through.

I really couldn't have put this better myself

 

[glojo]

I really couldn't have put this better myself

It so humble of you to finally agree. Well done

John

 

[Dieselman]

i havent read all this but i was sure reading someware that as biodiesel and running on veg oil is pretty populair ing ermany that the mb diesel lumps are some of the best to run on alternative fuel (i even heared in theory you could use liquid lard in a merc engine)

i ahve a peaugot lump in my high milage derv burner (still no merc) and ia m giving serious though to running it on diesel/veg oil mix

or buy a old series 3 diesel land rover and use that engine to experiment with it (and ahve some fun off road )

Sam

If your Pug has a Lucas CAV distibutor pump then I wouldn't advise using veg oil as the pump isn't strong enough to take the load. Also the seals aren't "veg proof" so will swell and cause problems. On the other hand if it's a Bosch pump then it will fair much better.
Fot the same reason a LR on Vegoil will be a problem.

 

[Dieselman]

It so humble of you to finally agree.

I have no problem agreeing when someone has a greater knowledge than I do.

We have discussed veg-oil, RME and LARD. These are three different products.

All three can be used in a diesel engine and all three have special requirements.
As has been said veg-oil has a higher lubrication value but is more viscous, RME (Rapeseed Methyl Ester) removes the viscosity issue but due to it's manufacturing technique also reduces it's lubrication value, (just like low sulpher diesel from the pumps), and LARD,(animal fat) without transesterifaction can be used in a diesel engine.

LARD can in fact be run through a diesel without convertion as long as it is liquified by using heat prior to entering the fuel pump.
To do this a seperate fuel tank is fitted with a heating coil and the fuel lines are lagged and heated.
The vehicle is started on regular diesel or veg-oil or RME, until operating temperature is reached. The LARD is melted by this stage and so flows through the pipes and pump without problem. A few minutes before the journey end the lard supply is switched off and returned to liquid fuel to stop pipes being clogged with fat.

All fats an oils have a calorific value, so can be burned. Finding the best products with the least side effects is the technical problem.

 

[glojo]

Thanks for explaining how to use the lard. I prefer that to my lard sandwiches.

Regards,
John

 

[sym]

LARD can in fact be run through a diesel without convertion as long as it is liquified by using heat prior to entering the fuel pump.
To do this a seperate fuel tank is fitted with a heating coil and the fuel lines are lagged and heated.
The vehicle is started on regular diesel or veg-oil or RME, until operating temperature is reached. The LARD is melted by this stage and so flows through the pipes and pump without problem. A few minutes before the journey end the lard supply is switched off and returned to liquid fuel to stop pipes being clogged with fat.

Amazing !!

 

[Dieselman]

Amazing !!

Exactly. Now you know why diesels rock.

For info here is a linky to some cars running neat vege oil. Look at the mileages and the models. There are pages and pages to look at.

http://rapsdb.rapsinfo.de/view.php?offset=90&sort=&marke=Mercedes

They are from this site

http://www.rerorust.de/

Somewhere I have a piccy of a MB van with lard being shovelled into the tank. Just load it from your disused coal bunker.

 

[samuelellis]

any chance of findong that image?