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Visiting the Nürburgring

corned

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I am going over to Belgium in the near future, close to the German border. It seems a pity to be so relatively close and not nip over the border and have a little mosey round the 'Ring.

The question is, as I will have my family with me, are there any issues I may encounter with regard to safety and/or passenger limits (age and number of), and such like?

Has anyone else been round with all souls on board?

Incidentally, the Spa circuit is also too close to ignore, so is it possible to do a tour of that as well? I will of course go round the old circuit roads, but is it possible to include the rest of it as well?

Cheers in advance!
 
I wouldn't advise going around the Nurburgring with your family in the car.
Whilst you may drive safely you cannot guarantee others will too.
Enjoy :)

ps. try to survive more than 7s than this poor soul.
[YOUTUBE]grb079bY-Gc[/YOUTUBE]
 
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It's a public highway, therefore no unusual restrictions on passengers.

I won't go around it without crash helmet; I'd be disappointed if you did the same with your family.

RH
 
I am going over to Belgium in the near future, close to the German border. It seems a pity to be so relatively close and not nip over the border and have a little mosey round the 'Ring.

The question is, as I will have my family with me, are there any issues I may encounter with regard to safety and/or passenger limits (age and number of), and such like?

Has anyone else been round with all souls on board?

Incidentally, the Spa circuit is also too close to ignore, so is it possible to do a tour of that as well? I will of course go round the old circuit roads, but is it possible to include the rest of it as well?

Cheers in advance!

Hi Corned

As a professional motorsport instructor I drive the ring at least twice per year, did it 4 times last year been twice this year so far.

Please do not underestimate the danger of this place, I'm not trying to scare you but in August last year we were there for 3 days on public openings and there were 3 fatalities and 27 serious injuries.

Its a great place treat it with respect and enjoy it, my advice check the public openings and go in a quiet period for starters Monday afternoon / evening is best if you can manage it. Failing that get a couple of laps tuition with one of the many guys offering instruction out there, its worth it and could save your life.

I've taken 4 in the car a few times and its not a nice experience, upsets the cars balance and the rear seat passengers usually end up being sick if you drive it as its meant to be driven. If you are going for a tootle round then fine but keep an eye on that rear view mirroe and indicate right and stay off the racing line if you see anything coming. I would take them one at a time theres a lovely cafe / restaurant for them to drink / eat in whilst you on track. I also know a guy from the hotel we stay at who will sell you cheap lap tickets, if you need hotel or any other info let me know, if you search theres a link on here somewhere to a you tube video of our exploits last August when I took my nephew for the first time.

As regards Spa you can drive that too but only on select dates so you would need to get your timing right, to be honest I enjoyed that more than the ring, a modern GP circuit where you can get your car up to its limits (just make sure you don't exceed your own personal limits) Spa with 4 in is much better and much safer

Finally check out these 3 websites for all you need to know

BridgeToGantry.com - Everything Nurburgring Nordschleife! - BTG Home

Ben Lovejoy's Nurburgring Nordschleife website

Nürburgring* - *home

If you need any further info just let me know I'm happy to help

P.S. dont forget most insurance policies exclude use on the ring and some mention it specifically, you can get specialist insurance but its expensive or carries high excesses, but then you can insure the excess (boy its complicaed)
 
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Another point to check on re the 'Ring' is your insurance : some insurers exclude cover on certain 'toll roads' in Germany ( a backhand way of saying you aren't covered on that particular road ) - so beware !

Never been myself , but I think there are sometimes sessions booked by car clubs so only their members get on ? Thinking of Classic cars where the owners aren't going to risk their cars too much - probably the safest time to go - as long as you have the right car .
 
Hello


Just take it easy watch your mirrors for cars, motorbikes and Tranny vans... keen over and just let the quicker things pass..

I've seen clips with bus's and campers going round?

Above post looks very helpful though.
 
Sound advice

Sound advice from all - many thanks.

I'm no test pilot - I simply want to say that I've been round there at least once in my life. I also want to pay my respects to a few of the unfortunate ones who started a race there but never got to see the chequer - notably Peter Collins at Pflanzgarten.

My family would be more than happy to enjoy some hospitality while I'm out enjoying myself, and I believe that if/when the time comes, my missus will chicken out anyway and take the kids for a quick bite to eat or something. I was more wondering if it was possible or even allowed to take children round.

Also, there are some realities to face. It's a big Mercedes diesel estate (see new piccie in the Albums section!) - not a race car, and I'm not interested in going for a time. Also, it's a long walk back to England if I bend anything.

I have a helmet so I will probably pack that anyway, but it doesn't seem good form to wear one while the other 3 do without!!! Also, if it happens to be wet, then I think I might well pass anyway - again not so much for my sake, but I don't want to get clobbered by any idiots out there.

A few friends have been round in their old E-Types, and one in particular absolutely hated the place. He was scared witless by the bikers who came flying underneath him whilst he was trying to commit to an apex.

So I'm under no illusions of either my own performance or anyone else's.

I note from recent digging that one lap is €23 and 4 laps is €76, which I think is very reasonable. Ian, if you know where to get cheaper ones then I would love to know!
 
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Take it easy and drive at your own pace and there is unlikely to be any problem. Indicate right as much as you like and allow faster cars go by.
 
The 'ring is a dangerous place.

So whther you are happy to drive it with or without your family is up to you. My personal choice is I would not take any non-adult passenger that had given me thir full consent.

The other issue is insurance. As I understand it a precedent has now been set due a landmark decision from the insurance ombudsman and on tourist driving days (not closed track days) UK insurance is unlikley to give you the 3rd party liablity you require by German law to have and therefore in the case of an incident you could be liable for potentially ridiculous amounts.

Sadly I think it is the end of the line for UK drivers and tourist drving days, unless you have hired a German vehicle etc, if you want to be insured that is.
 
Lots of good advice. I'm a bit like you corned, I wanted to drive it once just to say I did it. My friends and I have an annual trip to the Ring which also includes Spa (sadly you've just missed it - we go in May).

I would offer the following. I've been three times, and usually I go round with a friend of mine who is one of Silverstone's Race School instructors. He doesn't go for it - specifically he won't without our consent - and is quite happy to give us a ride which is reasonably fast, but not stupid.

He can tell you stories of motorcyclists coming round the bend - and in one instance he had one put his head thru the passenger window as he went round a bend.

I've been in the wet, and in the dry. Some may argue that its more dangerous in the wet - but to be blunt the reality is people tend to really go for it in the dry, not so much in the wet. On balance - it's just a VERY dangerous place.

However it has a lot of history and the museum etc is well worth a trip. I'd also suggest that if you really want to experience the ring (but not drive it) give one of the BMW's a go - they are great and you know they've had masses of experience with the place.

Crashes do happen - a LOT. On one day in the wet I think the course opened for less than 1 hour. 5 crashes, 3 with bikes and cars involved. You need to be VERY alert. I consider myself an average driver, with an IAM license. However the speed at which things come at you shocked me - relative speeds between reasonable cars and the specialist motors are broad.

Did I drive it ? Only the once, and with a helmet, and my buddy next to me, talking me through the corners. It was bone dry, I went first thing in the morning (I think I was the third car - roughly 8am) so very quiet - most people have breakfast before doing a lap - and although I enjoyed it, I couldn't wait to stop.

It will certainly set your pulse racing, and will for sure be a thrill. But approach it with caution, and respect. You should be okay. Most of the regular drivers of the ring are really great - the give people room and don't race. (It's a road - you shouldn't be racing). You do need to watch the bikes - but frankly its a bit unfair on them to say that. They are just as careful and ride with caution. It's the one idiot you want to watch out for.

I'd do the late evening or the early morning. Oh and before you ask - I also drove Spa. A totally different experience - for a start you can remember the track, and huge amounts of room. The Ring is a like an A road - its narrow, and has some seriously big changes in gradient.

PM me and I can let you know when we are going next year. I won't be driving it myself - I tend now to do a lot of photography and explore the hills around the track. Just watching some of the exotic stuff doing laps is quite incredible a thrill for me. (I have two kids and a lovely wife). It's not a matter of trust - it's a matter of looking at the risks.

Hope that helps.
 
First thing I want to say is to "Do it!", second thing I want to say is that there's some really bad smelling comments in this thread already.

Some facts. You're thinking of visiting the Nordschleife Nürburgring, not the Grand Prix Nürburgring, on a Touristenfahrten. That is "tourist drives". During these times the track is open to the general public on the same premises that a normal German road is open; you have to have license, your vehicle has to be in road going condition (i.e insurance, tax, M.O.T) with a few addendums. You must be able to travel faster than 70km/h (i.e no tractors) and so forth. You may not use race tyres (slicks etc), loud exhausts, cars without brake lights, etc.
Above all, all German road rules apply. That includes to drive on the right and pass on the left (very important rule!!). If you have an accident, German law applies; Police will be called, insurances will be put into play, and if you've been an idiot, you'll face fines, prosecution etc.
This leads to another very very important point; It is NOT a race track. Racing during Touristenfahrten is not allowed; Verboten!

Some trivia; It takes between 50 and 100 laps, at 13 miles a pop, to learn where the track goes. It takes a lifetime to master it. In short; don't even think you know the track. Don't drive fast because you think it's a race track, only drive what you can see when you're a newbie.

How do Touristenfahrten accidents happen? Two things:
1) Driver/Rider goes over his/her limits. Doesn't know the track, can't drive/ride the vehicle. Red mist. Racing. Etc... You can affect this; Don't overdo it.
2) You have "someone elses accident"; Oil spills/coolant spills. They're just on track and you can't avoid them. Another thing is you come around a corner and there's a car that's spun or a bike that's down and you need to avoid it. These things you can't control in any other way than make sure that you can stop your vehicle safely. Just like on the road (remember the part about this being a road)!

Customs on the track.
It's customary to drive on the right, and indicate right to let someone pass. If you need to pass, you make sure you don't have a faster car passing you, and then indicate left, and pass on the left. Let traffic take the corners alone, try to overtake going out of corners or before going into corners. Exception is obviously when a slower vehicle goes way offline in a corner to let traffic past.
Check your mirrors; Before the corner, in the corner, after the corner and at the middle of the straight.

Bikes are different to cars. Bikes accelerate better than cars, but corner and brake worse. This means that a bike will overtake your easily out of the corner, but might be holding you up going into a corner or around the corner. Bikes also have more issues altering the line through a corner once committed to a line through a corner. Also keep in mind that a bike gets "wider" as it corners and leans over.
If you have issues with bikes (or cars for that matter), just drop back for a while and let the traffic clear. You have around 10 minutes of fun per lap. Don't spoil it by red-misting in traffic when you can "waste" 30 seconds to drop back a bit to some clear space.

Bikers thank you by lifting their foot off the peg; it's not a threat or angry gesture.

Remember; you all have equal rights to be on the track, regardless of vehicle type and/or make/brand/model.

A good tip is to get yourself a "hare", i.e another person that can drive in front of you that knows the track. This person can keep an eye out in the mirrors so you can spend a little more time focusing on going forward. If the car in front of you indicates right and goes off-line you'll know there's faster traffic approaching from the rear. They can aslo pace you to make sure that you don't overcook Adenauer Forst for example.
If you want to do it slightly more serious; rent a car from RSR Nürburg, and/or an instructor. Many of them are good friends of mine and are top notch blokes, on or off the track.

With regards to taking your family and children onto the track, it's largely up to you and how fast you're going to go. First get a passenger lap or three with someone else. Then I think that you should consider going out on your own with someone experienced in the passenger seat to guide you around to get a taster, and then take your family out. Put into perspective, there's constantly coaches (yes, big buses) and campervans going round at an incredibly sedate pace (to the right with right indicator on). I have not witnessed any of them having accidents.

Note that there's always some jerk somewhere that'll only think of themselves and spoil the fun for others. Just don't let them get to you, simply stay away. There are incredibly fast cars and bikes out there, but they tend to be very seasoned and they know the "code".

Lap tickets cost what they cost, there's no discounts etc. You might find cheaper ones on eBay from people who've gone over and not been able to use all laps. Buyer beware though as you can't check how many laps the ticket has got.

There are fatal accidents, but sometimes it's very juicy to speculate in them. Nürburgring GmBH does not release any figures so, it's speculations.
Bikers don't stick their heads through windows of cars. And so forth.

With regards to spectating and the area in general. Nürburg, Adenau and surrounding area is a haven for motor enthusiasts. Imagine a place where you don't have to be ashamed of having petrol flowing in your veins! There's tons of cars and bikes to look at. There's several good spots to spectate and take pictures. All in all, a wonderful atmosphere situated in an incredible surrounding.

Think of the Nordschleife as a wonderful one-way B-road and you should be able to have a great experience. And the "code" states that once your car has been around the track, it's allowed to wear a Ring-sticker. :thumb:

Please ask questions if you have any!
 
Sadly I think it is the end of the line for UK drivers and tourist drving days, unless you have hired a German vehicle etc, if you want to be insured that is.
I'm surprised they don't sell a fixed-price insurance per lap or per day for those that need it!
 
RSR did a very nice track walk as well when I was there last year. That was probably more interesting than driving my own car. I'd recommend that; Dale from RSR was an excellent guide, he seemed to have a scary knowledge of the ring!
 
RSR did a very nice track walk as well when I was there last year. That was probably more interesting than driving my own car. I'd recommend that; Dale from RSR was an excellent guide, he seemed to have a scary knowledge of the ring!

Dale's top-notch! :cool: He was banned this week, for alledgedly "taking taxi passengers". Back on track now. :rock:
I've not been on the track walk, becuase a) I'm cheap, b) it impedes on my beer drinking time. :dk: :doh:
 

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