w123 m110 into a w114

[dat83]

hi to all! I finally got my compression gauge in the post yesterday, and it turns out that number 5 cylinder has none what so ever! so all that mucking around with regulators, pumps and sensors was a total waste of time unfortunatly! BUT at least its over.... Want to say a big thank you to all that helped with ideas and suggestions over the last few weeks!

My question to all is, ive tracked down an m110 engine from a W123, i know they're same engine (although in pics, they look like there's a few differences) but how easy is it too put the w123 version into my W114? has any one done it before? any info would be great before i spend out on a new engine and have to spend another wedge on parts or bits to make it fit...also how difficult is it to do the swop? Or should i bite the bullet and spend out on getting some one to fit it for me? thanks alot guys, appreciate the help

 

[ray_hennig]

I'm not an expert but ...

I think it would be possible but you'd need all the fuel injection and ignition, I think.

My W114 280CE has Bosch D injection and our later W123 280TE had Bosch K. As you say, the engines seem very similar but I imagine the inlet is entirely different.

Interesting project though.

Sorry to be of little use.

RayH

 

[dat83]

Ahh right, yes mine is a D-jetronic engine, and the newer ones K is it? i hadn't thought about that ill see if i can sort these though the yard too. might be more expensive then i thought then though...back to the drawing board maybe......unless you want to sell me your 280ce engine?

 

[ray_hennig]

Ahh right, yes mine is a D-jetronic engine, and the newer ones K is it? i hadn't thought about that ill see if i can sort these though the yard too. might be more expensive then i thought then though...back to the drawing board maybe......unless you want to sell me your 280ce engine?

Sorry, the old 280CE went years ago, a super car that belonged to a peer of the realm before me and he used to refer to it as 'Slow One Awful' due to the registration SLO104L. Many family holidays with 4 children rattling around en route to the Med - happy days.

All I've got now is a 300CE-24 that I'm trying to figure out and return to former glory.

Bon courage.

RayH

 

[dat83]

ahh well good luck with it! ive just spoken to the guy with the engine, hes thinking that if i took the injection system and rockker from my d-jet and fitted it to his k-jet, it should be good....any thoughts?

 

[ray_hennig]

ahh well good luck with it! ive just spoken to the guy with the engine, hes thinking that if i took the injection system and rockker from my d-jet and fitted it to his k-jet, it should be good....any thoughts?

Gosh, I really don't know, you need the brainy boys for that.

If I were doing it, I'd be tempted to get all the necessary parts from a donor car and transplant the lot into the W114. There's so much in even the relatively ancient K injection that's specific to the engine.

One of my talents is spending other people's money!

RayH

 

[grober]

the best buy in 2nd hand engines is an unmolested "runner" in another wise unusable car- crash damage/ failed MOT etc best of all is an entire donor car which you can scrap later. Buying a "cold" engine without ancilliaries ignition/engine management/injection system/ manifolds can end up as expensive as rebuilding what you already have. If you must transplant -"go large" and get the complete package--- mix and match means you don't know where you are IMHO

 

[jonnyboy]

do you know why its got no compression? ie have you had it running well on 5, and is it chuffing from the rad/using water/water in the oil etc?

could be a sticky ring if its been standing a while.

try a wet n dry compression test. spin over full throttle, then drop a few squirts of oil into the plug hole and do again. if youget compression its likely to be a ring fault-squirt some plusgas down into the bore and see if it frees up.

its a touch unusual to have zero compression at all unless its dropped a valve/cracked the head/bore badly/or a ring/piston failure

 

[VB123]

have you checked the valve clearances? Mind you, if it happened all of a sudden.....

 

[dat83]

Right, thanks guys, ive got compression in all 6 now, trying what u said jonnyboy and after a few attemps it worked. Im not sure im happy though, i'd resigned to buying a new engine and now this one may be ok im not sure i will? which means were back square one thinking its a fuel issue? ive spoken to specialists,experts,forums, on the phone again to Germany this morn, no ones got any ideas about what it could be?? where is the cold start valve? ill try disconnecting that, tried all the sensors i can find one by one, no different or no fire, ive fiddled with all the timing,mixture,idle and regulators and nothing(all back in orig place now) nothing changes anything...it just cuts straight out after starting unless i clamp the return fuel line??? getting so frustrated!

 

[dat83]

disconnected the cold start valve and doesn't fire at all? that not right is it?

 

[Ian B Walker]

Bite the bullet and get it rebored. Then its the original engine matching the chassis. No faffing about swapping this for that only to find the this needs an extra that to make this work alongside that.

 

[alexander patie]

dat83, it is great asking everybody, but eventually you need to test some things !!!!!!!!

first would be checking fuel pressure through the start up and cutting out cycle. if ok then check for spark at the plugs through the cycle. you could disconnect a lead and fit a spare plug and make sure it touches earth.

have you listened to the injector firing with a screwdriver? the sharp end on the injector and the handle pressed to the earlobe, you should hear clicking when cranking/running.

two of these simple tests need no special parts at all, good luck.

 

[dat83]

Ian, i wouldn't mind getting it rebored if i thought that would solve it? but everything ive done so far hasn't changed a thing! how do i know that will? if its a fuel delivery issue im still at the square one?

Alexander patie, believe me mate, ive done every bit of checking and changing i can do...Ive done the fuel pressure, 32psi solid until it cuts out then falls, ive checked the spark, has good spark, ive checked compression, has good compression (129psi lowest and 150 highest), ive replaced a fuel pressure reg and fiddled settings on both, changes nothing, fiddled with timing,idle and mixture - changes nothing (all back to original settings), checked all sensors and wires, all appear ok, put on a new ignition amp, new metal and rubber fuel lines, new pump and filter, tested the fuel flow, just over 1 litre in 15 seconds, swoped any relays under glove box that were the same incase one was knackered, no change....i havent done the screwdriver test i will admit, but it runs fine if i clamp the return pipe so thinking there fine, but i will check it in this way... infact ill do it right now...anything else i can check? maybe the ECU is buggered? havent found anyone or any specialists that have seen this before, ive rang half of Europe! sure everyones getting fed up of my issues but im desperate! it was suggested that the safety cut out maybe what cutting the engine and fuel? but i dont know if that will be changed via the fuel pump relay or what?

 

[alexander patie]

you are confident the fuel pressure is correct and constant, until after the engine cuts. therefore you can rule out any fuel pump related issues, including relays and cut outs.

you say it runs ok with the return blocked, this suggests ignition timing and voltage issues can be ruled out.

check those injectors for 'clicking', you really need to know if they are powered up and cycling. how do the plugs look at the moment?

 

[jonnyboy]

really stupid thought - faulty fuel cap?

have heard it happen.....or.....

presumably the clamped return line means that you are increasing the fuel pressure in the metering head therefore the fuel pressure with it unclamped isnt good enough? Have any of the metal lines been damaged or replaced with hoses clamped for instance?

 

[alexander patie]

no metering head on this jb. injectors are electric (yup, even way back then. mb then went onto cfi (k-jetronic) for the next 18 yrs!!).

 

[dat83]

not sure about the fuel cap, haven't checked it closely but i will, know the key bit is buggered anyhow so maybe i'll get a new one to be sure....i'd bloody love it to be that! As for the hoses, ive replaced them all, every inch other then those the injectors with the special ends. Metal and rubber so donth think they're an issue....

I tried to check the clicking last night but whereas they all sound the same, i wouldn't say there was a clear clicking sound. hard to hear over the rattles and clanks of the engine but ill try again later after work. could these injectors let by then if the fuel is forced when i clamp the return line? i would imagine that the more fuel/pressure wouldn't make a difference if they're like a valve and open against the pressure to let the fuel by?ill search the net later too to see how these actually work, something i haven't looked too much into because it runs when clamped, i didnt think the injectors would be a prob, but maybe ive misunderstood how these actually work.
Thanks for thoughts though,, i really do appreciate everyones help. It feels l;ike its got to be something simple!!just can't find what!

 

[dat83]

oh and the plugs do go a bit black but not awful, i gave them a good clean up again and turned the mixture a bit leaner ill check them again regular just to keep an eye on them...

 

[jonnyboy]

i agreewith you about the something simple, it often is!
especially bearing in mind what you were telling me regarding other "fixes" by the previous owner....