W124 atf

[Bill_33]

W124 Auto Transmission Fluid

Is there any difference between the stuff that you (should), put in the 300TE, (M103 engine), and the E280, (M104 engine).

The colour of the stuff in my 300CE is a clear light brownish, whereas the stuff in my E280 was red

Cheers

 

[blondebier]

Hi Bill,

The genuine stuff I got from MB for my 230TE was red.

Not sure about the lightish brown colour - maybe another brand?

 

[grober]

Try putting your different models in here. Fuchs Europe - Lubricant Recommendations

 

[Bill_33]

Try putting your different models in here. Fuchs Europe - Lubricant Recommendations

Thanks

All the same - for reference

300TE & 300CE & E280, (4 and 5 speed)

Transmission, automatic Capacity 6,2 liter

Use: Normal Service intervals:
Check 20000 km
Change 60000 km

TITAN ATF 5005
TITAN ATF 4000
TITAN ATF 5000 SL
TITAN ATF 3000

Also may be useful REAR DIFF
300TE & 300CE & E280, (4 and 5 speed)

Use: Normal Service intervals:
Check 20000 km
TITAN SINTOPOID FE 75W-85
TITAN GEAR HYP 90
TITAN GEAR HYP 85W-90

 

[Roger Jones]

Shouldn't all ATF be bright translucent wine-red if in good nick? I would suspect any other colour as indicating the need for a change.

MB say in their own Technical data passenger cars (October 1993) "Automatic transmission fluid (ATF) according to Specifications for Service Products sheet 236.4/6/7" for all models.

300 TE and E280
Initial fill 7.3L
Oil change 6.2L

 

[SilverSaloon]

yeah sounds like its just old burnt fluid to me.

it should be a cherry-ade colour.

 

[w124coupe]

yeah sounds like its just old burnt fluid to me.

it should be a cherry-ade colour.

Exactly that - brown means "change me".

 

[Bill_33]

Thanks All,

please now point me to a thread that tell me all about changing the ATF

It is a relatively straightforward job - I am a reasonable DIY car person as I have had BM Bikes for year plus old cars and have tended to do most of the "routine" work

Do MBZ sell a "filter plus" kit
Presumably you drain it out when hot and fill it .......is there a filler plug at the top or side of the gear box..............
Can you get all the 7.3L out....or do you just drain as much as you can and add (6.3L), and take no notice of the min and max markings on the "dip stick"

Is this TITAN ATF 5005 stuff from MBZ - presumably it is what they would recommend?

Still looking for a "workshop manual" is Haynes any good - will pass by Halfrawds this afternoon

Cheers

 

[w124coupe]

Answers inline (and do a search):

Do MBZ sell a "filter plus" kit

You need to buy a filter, a pan gasket and drain plug washer plus the fluid.

Presumably you drain it out when hot and fill it .......is there a filler plug at the top or side of the gear box..............

Drain while hot. Drain via BOTH the pan drain and the torque converter drain (turn engine via crank nut in normal direction until plug becomes visible through access hatch). Fill via the dipstick tube (have a CLEAN funnel ready)

Can you get all the 7.3L out....or do you just drain as much as you can and add (6.3L), and take no notice of the min and max markings on the "dip stick"

f you are Merc, you drain all you can as above and then refill with 4 litres. Then run and cycle through the gearlever settings a few times and then top up, in stages, to the "full" 80C mark on the dipstick (your car should have one) - measured, while idling, in park, with fluid at 80C.

Don't use anything fluffy to wipe the dipstick....not a place for cheapo bog roll..

Is this TITAN ATF 5005 stuff from MBZ - presumably it is what they would recommend?

You can use the MB stuff which is widely purported to be immaculately conceived God-juice..or ask the dealer to tell you, from your VIN, the MBxxx.x rating required for your box - i.e. the spec of the one they would use assuming you decided to let them do it (the min spec is different for 722.x 4 and 5 speed boxes because of the stresses from torque converter partial lock-up) and then buy a good brand accordingly.

Still looking for a "workshop manual" is Haynes any good - will pass by Halfrawds this afternoon

Haynes is OK but missing a lot; Brooklands similar. Combo is OK but still lacking. You can add service CDs from EBAY and/or WIS DVD (both the latter are rip-off copies so you need to think if that bothers you or not).

Easy job all told - but for that reason its also cost-effective at an indie and much easier done with the car in the air than lying on the floor with ATF in your mouth, eyes and ears (for lining up the torque converter drain, a helper is advised unless you like getting under the car 403 times in 10 minutes - or can trace your Cro-Magnon DNA and so are able to reach the crank nut, and turn it, while looking into the bellhousing).

 

[Bill_33]

Thanks W124Coupe, for your extensive reply - we need to start a few "W124 Stickies" - a lot easier than searching

I agree - on my back for a couple of hours - close up with my "reading" glasses - as you suggest probably a "cheapish" job done professionally.........not as much fun but maybe £50, (but see next thread!), for labour will see it done.

I'll get a quote from my local garage - I trust him and he has been in business for years in Hampshire = many school run 7 seater W124s.

I will supply parts and fluid and the great thing is that he will let me watch while he sticks it up on the ramps and does the work.......I have known him for 20 years.

May just, also ask my nearest Indie.

Cheers

 

[Bill_33]

OK guys - my local garage will not do it - he sends all his to a gear box specialist who test the god knows what, (banding, pressure, put an in-line filter in, flush it if it is really bad, road test it, adjust god knows what).
Anyway I spoke to them and they seem to know what it's all about.

Black and smells = slipping and problems, which you should be able to tell by driving the car.

Light brown like mine and seems OK to drive - probably never been changed or only changed once it it's life

They use only genuine Merc parts plus this Fuchs, (excuse the French), ATF stuff

Price = £175 plus VAT all in or about £130 if I supply the parts - they are happy to do it while I wait, (or I can walk around the local shops) - maybe One and a half hours work.

(interestingly local garage, who I know very well said "Bill if its going OK just leave it")

 

[SilverSaloon]

Thanks All,

please now point me to a thread that tell me all about changing the ATF
Cheers

ok :-

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/howto/23969-howto-change-atf-97-w210.html

dont torque the pan bolts up too much - use a torque wrench or nip them up by hand then very slightly more. the 124 doesnt have the "safe" bolts mentioned in the w210 howto, but the procedure is the same

many stick with proper MB fluid and filters.

its not a hard job and i did it myself and everything went fine apart from me over torquing the bolts and i had to buy a new pan at £45.

 

[nick mercedes]

OK guys - my local garage will not do it - he sends all his to a gear box specialist who test the god knows what, (banding, pressure, put an in-line filter in, flush it if it is really bad, road test it, adjust god knows what).
Anyway I spoke to them and they seem to know what it's all about.

Black and smells = slipping and problems, which you should be able to tell by driving the car.

Light brown like mine and seems OK to drive - probably never been changed or only changed once it it's life

They use only genuine Merc parts plus this Fuchs, (excuse the French), ATF stuff

Price = £175 plus VAT all in or about £130 if I supply the parts - they are happy to do it while I wait, (or I can walk around the local shops) - maybe One and a half hours work.

(interestingly local garage, who I know very well said "Bill if its going OK just leave it")

You may as well do it yourself, it's easy to do and you only need some ATF a filter and a gasket.

£175 seems like a lot of money for essentailly a half hour job.

 

[Bill_33]

Thanks Nick - it was good to meet you yesterday and see your "Aladdin Cave(s)"

 

[Bill_33]

You may as well do it yourself, it's easy to do and you only need some ATF a filter and a gasket.

£175 seems like a lot of money for essentially a half hour job.

Changed my mind again.........I will do the job myself after your reassurance

That was my gut feeling, but it is funny that the local garage will no "touch" them

Cheers

 

[w124coupe]

£130+VAT for labour only is more than Merc would charge....

 

[Roger Jones]

"dont torque the pan bolts up too much"

From MB's Technical data passenger cars (October 1993):

"Hex. head bolts for fastening oil pan 8 Nm"

That's a very low number, but there it is.

And:

"Oil drain plug on torque converter and oil pan 14 Nm".

There are plenty of other numbers if you need them.

 

[Bill_33]

Just spoken to MBZ Winchester + £170, (inc VAT and parts), for W124 ATF change...all they seem to do it change the oil
20% discount on the above for "old cars"

The gaskets etc, seem to be about £30 plus VAT........must PM nick

Certainly seems a cost effective DIY job if all they do is change the oil.....i.e. drain it and refill

(off topic.......rear number plate screws 87 pence each plus VAT and they have to order them in.....I need 4...but no thanks at those prices).
Rear wiper Blade MBZ = £13 odd plus VAT less 10%..again order it in - same Bosch item £9.49, inc VAT at Halfords)

 

[Roger Jones]

"Rear wiper Blade MBZ = £13 odd plus VAT less 10%..again order it in - same Bosch item £9.49, inc VAT at Halfords"

And possibly even cheaper at either GSF or Euro Car Parts.

I always check MB prices, partly because of the excellent parts man there, but you can't ignore the other sources for identical products. My latest quest to replace a fuel-filler flap trashed by a thief; MB's £60 for a simple and small bit of unpainted metal has me talking to breakers.

 

[grober]

Would never just "change the fluid" on a W124. Especially if you think it hasn't been done for a while. Recommended mileage for a change of fluid +filter is 36K mileS. Only snag you may run into other than the warped pan mentioned previously is some of the bolts may be seized into the gearbox casting threads due to corrosion. Be EXTREMELY careful not exert too much torque to free them as the bolt heads can shear off leading to a world of pain! While quite feasible I don't know if I would attempt this without a suitable torque wrench personally.