blondebier
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2008
- Messages
- 605
I think Major Boothroyd is among us.
That's a fantastic solution. Well done!
That's a fantastic solution. Well done!
W124 E220 Estate tidy up. Will I ever learn?
- Thread starter 312 Sprinter
- Start date
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rigel
Active Member
Good work sprinter,
thoroughly enjoyed reading through the post (two hours of my life gone, but i am better trained in the ways of the 124).
excelent well detailed discriptions of the various stages i may yet have to finance. eek.
I started by wanting to learn about rust on the sills/jacking points/wheel arches, and finished off with the sat nav instalation, the full tour!!
I will be reading it again in the not to distant future.
thank you.
thoroughly enjoyed reading through the post (two hours of my life gone, but i am better trained in the ways of the 124).
excelent well detailed discriptions of the various stages i may yet have to finance. eek.
I started by wanting to learn about rust on the sills/jacking points/wheel arches, and finished off with the sat nav instalation, the full tour!!
I will be reading it again in the not to distant future.
thank you.
OP
OP
312 Sprinter
Active Member
Its MOT is nearly due, the first we'll have done. I've got another inlet manifold and had it skimmed so I know its face is flat. This time I've bought the gasket from Euro car parts rather than Mercedes. It seems much more akin to the original.
We'll see what, if anything, the MOT throws up. I can't believe its been nigh on a year!
We'll see what, if anything, the MOT throws up. I can't believe its been nigh on a year!
rossyl
Active Member
OP
OP
312 Sprinter
Active Member
A little mini update. The MOT on the car is due. Since we've put it on the road John has done just shy of 6000 miles. It has never failed to proceed and the only failure has been the seal on the washer pump into the reservoir. However we were aware of a couple of lingering issues. Ever since we oil changed it the day after buying it the low oil warning light has intermittently flickered on and off. John and I decided we'd change the sender the nex time we oil changed the car. That moment is now and a fresh sender was bolted into the sump. It's an easy job, don't forget to order a new sealing ring.
The next issue was that the exhaust manifold was stil blowing. It seemed to be temperature dependent, sometimes it was fine, other times it would blow badly. I got a really nice condition used manifold from Mercedes cozy on here and had its face skimmed by the local tame engine reconditioners. The old manifold seems to have been blowing at the back edge, same as last time.
The new one is nice and flat, the studs are recent and the gasket is again new. Hopefully that'll sort it once and for all.
Tomorrow's job is rear suspension spheres, that ought to be fun. The back end is getting rather harsh though so it needs to be done. After that it'll be an appointment with the MOT man.
The next issue was that the exhaust manifold was stil blowing. It seemed to be temperature dependent, sometimes it was fine, other times it would blow badly. I got a really nice condition used manifold from Mercedes cozy on here and had its face skimmed by the local tame engine reconditioners. The old manifold seems to have been blowing at the back edge, same as last time.
The new one is nice and flat, the studs are recent and the gasket is again new. Hopefully that'll sort it once and for all.
Tomorrow's job is rear suspension spheres, that ought to be fun. The back end is getting rather harsh though so it needs to be done. After that it'll be an appointment with the MOT man.
swannymere
Active Member
Can you take lots of photos and if possible a 'How to" type guide as i'm going to have to tackle this sooner rather than later, thanks.
OP
OP
312 Sprinter
Active Member
For the rear spheres?
swannymere
Active Member
swannymere
Active Member
Is that you in August's Car Mechanics?
OP
OP
312 Sprinter
Active Member
err yeah^^
It was time to do the suspension spheres on John’s E220
Before I start my tale of woe perhaps a quick explanation is in order. W124 estates (S124 for the pedantists) have self levelling suspension. In essence the system was lifted from Citroen and an extra bit of Germanic awkwardness added into the mix.
The two “shock absorbers” aren’t; they are the hydraulic rams which jack the car to the correct ride height when heavily loaded. There is a fluid reservoir at the front and a pump on the engine. To the right of the diff there is a level control valve, where all the pipes congregate. Finally we have the spheres. These have a membrane, one half is filled with nitrogen, on the other side of the membrane there is hydraulic fluid. It is the spheres which give the suspension some compliance. Obviously a fluid is non compressible, but the nitrogen gas can be compressed.
The fly in the ointment is this; over time and mileage the nitrogen leaks through the membrane. Less gas means more hydraulic fluid in the sphere, which means less and less compliance. Eventually the suspension goes rock hard, which makes your 124 leap from pothole to pothole like a frog. Which in turn neatly brings us back to Citroens...
Theoretically changing the spheres is easy. The first step, whilst I was still clean was to fold the rear seats forwards. That allowed me to remove the panel immediately behind the seat. It is held by 6 screws, 3 on each side. You can get at the one behind the child seat, just. Once you lift up the panel you’ll see the two spheres nestling below it.
The next step was to jack the car up, support it safely and crawl underneath it. Before you take that step for yourself let me just warn you. This isn’t a technically difficult job. However everything will be ridiculously tight, rusty and seized. You WILL spill hydraulic fluid everywhere. You seriously don’t want to be doing this on your pristine paved drive. It is a filthy and horrible job. Your significant other may well decide to entertain the neighbours by making you strip on the doorstep before allowing you back into the house. Even the workshop dog refused a tickle behind her ear, and to be honest her standards really aren’t that high.
Once underneath you’ll see the level control valve on the RH side of the propshaft
Om top of it there is a bleed nipple. You can put a hose on it to release the pressure in the system, or you can crack one of the banjo nuts open, the choice is yours. Try to catch at least some of the fluid...
The business side of the sphere pokes through the floor of the car. There are two connections. The big banjo bolt is the feed to the rams. You need a good quality socket drive 10mm hex key to undo it. An angled allen key simply won’t cut it! I cracked the banjo bolt loose, and managed to catch most of the deluge.
The smaller pipe on the sphere is the return. It uses an 11mm flare nut. The return pipe looks like a brake pipe, but isn’t. These pipes have an internal restrictor. The idea is to control the flow of fluid in the sphere back to the reservoir if the suspension gets a sudden shock. (This bit is important, it is the source of my woe....)
If you could get these flare nuts undone easily then changing the spheres would be easy; I doubt you will. I stopped trying before rounding them off, after all I had some nice new genuine Mercedes pipes!. I cut the pipe with some bolt cutters and use a hex socket to undo the remaining flare nut. All that is left to do is undo the three nuts holding the sphere to the floor and it lifts out of the car.
At this point I decided to make life hard for myself. The two feed pipes to the rams were looking rather crusty on the bends, so I decided to replace them.
The job looks pretty easy, But somehow over the mists of time I’d overlooked the fact that absolutely no way will the new pipe go into place without removing the road spring. At which point I muttered oops how unfortunate (or words to that effect) and pulled both the lower rear suspension arms off the car so I could get said springs out. You need to undo the union to the flexy pipe going to the ram. I couldn’t without starting to round off the union. I cut the pipe behind the bracket with a mini pipe cutter, no risk of swarf in the system that way.
I then cut the bracket off the pipe so I could get two ring spanners onto the unions. Take care not to twist the flexy.
With the springs off the new pipes went in easily. The new feed pipes are £50 or so each from Mercedes.
The next step was to drop the new spheres into place. There is a seal you need to order separately.
With the springs back into place I could tighten up the banjo bolts. The final step was to fit the new return pipes. The new return pipes cost less than £15 each from Mercedes. EXCEPT Mercedes supplied me with the wrong one for the RH sphere and just supplied a brake pipe. I didn’t notice this until I had everything apart and had destroyed the pipe. Remember the restrictor? The pipe Mercedes supplied, and are adamant is right, doesn’t have it. The correct one has now been located at another dealer, which means John didn’t get his car back on time and I have to crawl under the damn thing again.....
It was time to do the suspension spheres on John’s E220
Before I start my tale of woe perhaps a quick explanation is in order. W124 estates (S124 for the pedantists) have self levelling suspension. In essence the system was lifted from Citroen and an extra bit of Germanic awkwardness added into the mix.
The two “shock absorbers” aren’t; they are the hydraulic rams which jack the car to the correct ride height when heavily loaded. There is a fluid reservoir at the front and a pump on the engine. To the right of the diff there is a level control valve, where all the pipes congregate. Finally we have the spheres. These have a membrane, one half is filled with nitrogen, on the other side of the membrane there is hydraulic fluid. It is the spheres which give the suspension some compliance. Obviously a fluid is non compressible, but the nitrogen gas can be compressed.
The fly in the ointment is this; over time and mileage the nitrogen leaks through the membrane. Less gas means more hydraulic fluid in the sphere, which means less and less compliance. Eventually the suspension goes rock hard, which makes your 124 leap from pothole to pothole like a frog. Which in turn neatly brings us back to Citroens...
Theoretically changing the spheres is easy. The first step, whilst I was still clean was to fold the rear seats forwards. That allowed me to remove the panel immediately behind the seat. It is held by 6 screws, 3 on each side. You can get at the one behind the child seat, just. Once you lift up the panel you’ll see the two spheres nestling below it.
The next step was to jack the car up, support it safely and crawl underneath it. Before you take that step for yourself let me just warn you. This isn’t a technically difficult job. However everything will be ridiculously tight, rusty and seized. You WILL spill hydraulic fluid everywhere. You seriously don’t want to be doing this on your pristine paved drive. It is a filthy and horrible job. Your significant other may well decide to entertain the neighbours by making you strip on the doorstep before allowing you back into the house. Even the workshop dog refused a tickle behind her ear, and to be honest her standards really aren’t that high.
Once underneath you’ll see the level control valve on the RH side of the propshaft
Om top of it there is a bleed nipple. You can put a hose on it to release the pressure in the system, or you can crack one of the banjo nuts open, the choice is yours. Try to catch at least some of the fluid...
The business side of the sphere pokes through the floor of the car. There are two connections. The big banjo bolt is the feed to the rams. You need a good quality socket drive 10mm hex key to undo it. An angled allen key simply won’t cut it! I cracked the banjo bolt loose, and managed to catch most of the deluge.
The smaller pipe on the sphere is the return. It uses an 11mm flare nut. The return pipe looks like a brake pipe, but isn’t. These pipes have an internal restrictor. The idea is to control the flow of fluid in the sphere back to the reservoir if the suspension gets a sudden shock. (This bit is important, it is the source of my woe....)
If you could get these flare nuts undone easily then changing the spheres would be easy; I doubt you will. I stopped trying before rounding them off, after all I had some nice new genuine Mercedes pipes!. I cut the pipe with some bolt cutters and use a hex socket to undo the remaining flare nut. All that is left to do is undo the three nuts holding the sphere to the floor and it lifts out of the car.
At this point I decided to make life hard for myself. The two feed pipes to the rams were looking rather crusty on the bends, so I decided to replace them.
The job looks pretty easy, But somehow over the mists of time I’d overlooked the fact that absolutely no way will the new pipe go into place without removing the road spring. At which point I muttered oops how unfortunate (or words to that effect) and pulled both the lower rear suspension arms off the car so I could get said springs out. You need to undo the union to the flexy pipe going to the ram. I couldn’t without starting to round off the union. I cut the pipe behind the bracket with a mini pipe cutter, no risk of swarf in the system that way.
I then cut the bracket off the pipe so I could get two ring spanners onto the unions. Take care not to twist the flexy.
With the springs off the new pipes went in easily. The new feed pipes are £50 or so each from Mercedes.
The next step was to drop the new spheres into place. There is a seal you need to order separately.
With the springs back into place I could tighten up the banjo bolts. The final step was to fit the new return pipes. The new return pipes cost less than £15 each from Mercedes. EXCEPT Mercedes supplied me with the wrong one for the RH sphere and just supplied a brake pipe. I didn’t notice this until I had everything apart and had destroyed the pipe. Remember the restrictor? The pipe Mercedes supplied, and are adamant is right, doesn’t have it. The correct one has now been located at another dealer, which means John didn’t get his car back on time and I have to crawl under the damn thing again.....
Last edited:
grumpyartman
New Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2009
- Messages
- 23
- Car
- E220 (1993 S124)
Might be an idea to check the brake pipes closely while your there, at the flexi union. I've done the spheres and then later the brakes pipes and wished I'd just got in there just the once.
You're far more competent than I am, and my 93 E220 is nowhere as good, but looking at the corrosion back there I'm betting the brake pipes are close to shot. I cut them at the unions and pulled them through gently to retain the shape and then bent the new ones and they pass back around the suspension ok. If the T union doesn't separate then the £30 quid pipe to the front has to forked out for too....glum.
PS terrific read ..mines silver also so.
You're far more competent than I am, and my 93 E220 is nowhere as good, but looking at the corrosion back there I'm betting the brake pipes are close to shot. I cut them at the unions and pulled them through gently to retain the shape and then bent the new ones and they pass back around the suspension ok. If the T union doesn't separate then the £30 quid pipe to the front has to forked out for too....glum.
PS terrific read ..mines silver also so.
swannymere
Active Member
Looks like it will make life easier in the future if i replace all the fastenings down there, i can easily imagine with my limited skill rounding or threading something and being stuck. I do have other transport so it looks like i have a winter project, thanks chaps.
OP
OP
312 Sprinter
Active Member
I think most of the brake pipes are OK, though I may replace a couple whilst I have everything in bits. I can never understand Mercedes using steel brake pipes. You just don't get this sort of nonsense on a Volvo, they use cupro nickel. Generally the car is very very pretty good, but we're trying to get it back to being spot on.
I'l just make any pipes it needs from cupro nickel and do it right once and for all.
OP
OP
312 Sprinter
Active Member
It passed, my normally tame MOT tester was feeling especially picky and failed it. The warning light bulb for the rear fog light was blown
Showed them how to change it and walked out with a pass....
Showed them how to change it and walked out with a pass....
Henry D
Active Member
Brilliant thread,well done on the rebuild,Time to start on mine now,luckily rust is confined to the front wings only.
benzers
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2011
- Messages
- 91
- Location
- North of London
- Car
- 230TE, but mum had a new 230TE in 1984 (W123), (not the same one) mines a W124
great work!
Troon
MB Enthusiast
I think you mean "pedants".
Seriously, great write-up. You clearly have amazing skills and patience in both vehicle maintenance / restoration and writing. Inspiring stuff!
jam38
Active Member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2010
- Messages
- 279
- Location
- Birmingham
- Car
- VW Sharan 1.9 TDI, Audi 80 1.6 TD - wish I still had a Benz!
What a great write up! Just spent the last few hours reading. Are there any further updates as it has been a few months?
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