w124 e220 to 230k engine swap, (m111)

Discussion in 'Engine' started by sagesingh, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. sagesingh

    sagesingh Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    111
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Car:
    '95 W124 E220, '96 W124 E320 Cabriolet
    Hi to all,

    i need some help with the theory behind this conversion.

    Background:

    i currently have a '96 E220 convertible, it has the m111 2.2 engine with 4speed auto box.

    (on a side note it has: Jenhert install, exhaust system, wald bodykit, new wings, full paintjob/rust removal, minor engine work, remote engine start/uprated alarm, Bilstein b12 suspension, remote boot release, front fogs, and im sure a few other bits i forgot)

    The aim

    I want to change the engine for a m111 2.3L komp engine (post 2000) from possibly a clk or something similar. Then to this engine i will install the asp racing pulley kit, taking it to around 240bhp.

    The issue

    I was speaking about this conversion with the mechanic and he (and now i) are wondering whether the ecu (from the donor) will cause any immobilastion issues. We are in disagreement here, he thinks that the ecu will effectively immobilise the engine because it will require the key from the donor.

    I dont think that it will cause a problem personally, but then again hes a professional with 20year with merc under his belt and im not really, lol.

    I was assuming that i would only really have to have the engine, wiring loom, ecu.

    Also would the 4sp autobox be ok for this setup? i understand that the 4sp box is stronger than the 5speed but will it be good enough.
    also if i were to change it to the trip-tronic setup what would it involve.

    Many thanks in advance,

    ps. i will be posting pictures of both the cabriolet and the coupe soon.


    i am also planning a uprated intercooler system and brakes off a larger merc. i have not looked into the brakes properly yet, want to get the power sorted first.
     
  2. bolide

    bolide Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,726
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Brighton
    Car:
    BMW E39 525 Diesel Touring
    Lots of hard work. Why not put an M104 3.2 in there? Standard W124 engine, all bits are available over the counter or via a breaker

    The M104 has more power and will be a much smoother, 6-pot engine. If you want to make it a little different fit the M104 with an aftermarket ECU and dump the factory loom & ECU

    I suspect E320 brakes will be fine for whatever you want to do

    Nick Froome
    the independent Mercedes Estate specialists
     
  3. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    26,871
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Perth, Scotland
    Car:
    W204 C200CDI Estate
    In the later compressor M111 2.3L engined cars the main engine ECU " talks " to the ignition key unit and possibly to the 5 speed autobox ECU. Without the presence of these units and their associated wiring I'm not sure the engine will run. There may well be ways of fooling the main engine ECU with suitable "dummy" inputs" but how exactly you would go about that I don't know. Your problem is that you are trying to mate up components from 2 different electronic generations of model. The engine will fit-- but that's about it sorry.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
  4. OP
    OP
    sagesingh

    sagesingh Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    111
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Car:
    '95 W124 E220, '96 W124 E320 Cabriolet
    Grobber, i guess he was right then.

    Nick: that was the original plan to be honest, the m104 coupled with a TT twin turbo kit when i can find one. The conversion itself would take place in a few months. just getting everything organised now so when i get the money i can start working again.

    Assuming i do go down the m104 route, what would i need to swap
    • engine
    • ecu
    • wiring
    • radiator
    • (brakes)
    • tranny?


    Is there anything else?
     
  5. bolide

    bolide Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,726
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Brighton
    Car:
    BMW E39 525 Diesel Touring
    I would expect the diff to be a different ratio on the 320. The diff also varies with 4-speed / 5-speed auto. There are a few ratios to choose from so break out the calculator and work out what you want for rpm / mph for your usage

    If you go for a TT setup you are into lots of work with fuelling, compression ratio, etc

    Personally, if I were going to go to all this trouble I'd find a wrecked 500SL and build something unique

    Nick Froome
    the independent Mercedes Estate specialists
     
  6. OP
    OP
    sagesingh

    sagesingh Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    111
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Car:
    '95 W124 E220, '96 W124 E320 Cabriolet
    The cabriolet been in the family for over 10 years and it was my dads, so im not looking to change the actuall car, just improve the engine.

    I was thinking putting about putting to 500 engine in it,but i just got new wings and suspension etc.. and if i get a 500 engine, it will need new wings, different front suspension and then respraying the wings, etc... and i dont really want to go through all that again.

    The ecu, enigne, wiring, rad and tranny i could change over in 2-3 days. that is based of the fact that i just finished a volvo 2.4 turbo in 1day (that was complete engine swap, and tranny, turbo, rad, driveshafts, and wiring.) Im really not bothered about the amount of work, i enjoy it. and even if it takes a few weeks doesnt matter, because i got the volvo to drive around in.

    With the TT setup, i understand i will have to change the fueling system (was looking at additional injectors and a stand alone fuel managemnt system), also will need to shorthen the conrods and alter the throttle body, might use forged pistons.

    I know its alot of work but i think it will be worth it in the long run.

    Does anybody know where i can get the TT kit from? anyone got one they want to sell??
     
  7. bolide

    bolide Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,726
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Brighton
    Car:
    BMW E39 525 Diesel Touring
    The 500E wings are to cover the bigger wheels on that car. If you're happy to run a 320 Twin Turbo on standard wheels, why not a 500?

    It'd be interesting to know the weight difference between an M104, M104 Twin Turbo and a 500 V8 engine. I suspect the 500 would be no heavier that a 320 TT and, because it has a shorter block, the weight would be further back in the car

    The one disadvantage the 320 has over the 220 is that it's 100 Kg heavier - and all that extra weight sits ahead of the front axle line

    The 500 has a stronger gearbox as well

    Nick Froome
    the independent Mercedes Estate specialists
     
  8. Niks

    Niks Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,542
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    This thread brings back memories! lol. If I wanted to create something different and unique, it'd be putting a M117 5.6 32v engine in there along with the gearbox and tranny. Not too many 124's left with that set up now.

    Back to your dilemma, I'd put in a M104 3.6 L from an early donor C36 without the electronic mileage on the dash. Then you'll have 6 sweet cylinders pushing out 270 horses, plus it'll still look like a factory install.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    sagesingh

    sagesingh Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    111
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Car:
    '95 W124 E220, '96 W124 E320 Cabriolet
    Was thinking about the c36 but then i thought if im going to make it a m104 then i might as well go all out and twin turbo it.

    Nick: wont a 3.2TT be quicker than a 500?
     
  10. mattc

    mattc Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,565
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Location:
    Midlands
    Car:
    2003 E270 avantgarde, 1994 E320 Coupe
    slightly; maybe on a drag. In real world conditions the spooling up of 2 turbos might well be negated by the 'on tap' torque of the 500
     
  11. Charles Morgan

    Charles Morgan MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    8,207
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Car:
    Mercedes 250CE W114, Alfa Romeo GT Coupe 3.2 V6
    The 500 would be a great relaxing engine with oodles of torque low down and a very nice rumble.

    Far more in keeping with the car.
     
  12. Niks

    Niks Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,542
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    I think the 3.2TT will be as quick as a 500 (talking about a 500E here) from a standing start, but i think its after the 80mph mark, the 500E will leave the 3.2TT for dead.
     
  13. bolide

    bolide Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,726
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Brighton
    Car:
    BMW E39 525 Diesel Touring
    Also, fairly high up in the "Things You Never Hear People Say" Top Ten is:

    "I fitted a Twin Turbo kit to my 320 and it ran perfectly from the first turn of the key, never gave me a moments trouble, fuelling was spot-on and the original management system coped perfectly!"

    Nick Froome
    the independent Mercedes Estate specialists
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. flango

    flango MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    10,993
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Location:
    Gods own country
    Car:
    Mercedes SLK R171
    A pre facelift 230k would be an easier option less sophisticated ECU so much more configurable. You won't manage 240bhp with the ASP pulley alone been there and done that one the best you can get with a pulley swap is about 231 bhp and then you have to upgrade the intercooler. My 230k has Brabus K1 tuning which consists upgraded pulley larger intercooler etc see HERE with a few other tasty mods you can just squeeze above 230 bhp, I then went into a performance head and bigger valves etc and now running around 270 ish bhp

    Good luck with the conversion will be nice when done :thumb:
     
  15. NW_Merc

    NW_Merc Banned

    Messages:
    5,918
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Location:
    Over here, sometimes over there
    Car:
    1994 Mercedes C180 classic
    Sorry, so as not to hijack this thread, could you PM me where you got your larger intercooler from as I'm going to need one for my turbo kit. :thumb:
     
  16. flango

    flango MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    10,993
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Location:
    Gods own country
    Car:
    Mercedes SLK R171
    It was on the car when I bought it along with the other Brabus K1 Kit, Forge do them though and THESE might be a good starting point but you are probably cheaper sourcing in Germany :thumb:
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. NW_Merc

    NW_Merc Banned

    Messages:
    5,918
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Location:
    Over here, sometimes over there
    Car:
    1994 Mercedes C180 classic
    Are there any particular makes of intercooler from Germany?
     
  18. flango

    flango MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    10,993
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Location:
    Gods own country
    Car:
    Mercedes SLK R171
    Not sure on the German suppliers But I'm over there on Tues/Weds so will try and find out for you, but I'd be surprised if someone is not along shortly who already knows.
     
  19. bolide

    bolide Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,726
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Brighton
    Car:
    BMW E39 525 Diesel Touring
    Re: quick

    You don't buy a W124 Coupe for quick. You buy it for what it is good for - wafting, making progress swiftly, comfort, etc. I don't think a 320 TT is at all incompatible with this ideal but I think to make it work really well would involve lots of hard work & money

    A really good TT setup would have lots of torque and be really effortless - just what you want. But I think it'd make you very aware that the gearbox is a bit marginal

    I think a V8 would be simpler, as good if not better overall than a TT, but better balanced and with a tougher gearbox than a TT. It might well be cheaper, too

    Nick Froome
    the independent Mercedes Estate specialists
     
  20. d w124

    d w124 MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    12,346
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Location:
    london
    Car:
    w124 3.6AMG styling E320 S124 Lorinser styling
    Is nothing wrong with the gear boxes Nick,there`s cars with over 100k on original gearbox,even though they had TT from new
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.