W124 E320 500TE Conversion

[Ron500E]

The purpose is to make a reliable car for cross country touring that has enough carrying capacity to haul those "little things" that one always finds a thousand miles from home.

The means to that end is to covert my Malachite Green/Mushroom 124 E320T to resemble my Malachite Green/Mushroom 124 500E using all Mercedes (or OEM) parts. Just like Mercedes would have done should they have asked me...

I decided against doing the M119 engine conversion because it is beyond my capabilities. I'll live with the lower power of the E320 in the interest of reliability rather than empty the bank account trying to achieve something else. Getting rid of the kats will help a little in the power and weight department. So would missing a few dinners for that matter.
Besides, I subscribe to the belief that a stupid man who knows he is stupid is far better off than a smart man who thinks he is smarter. "Mans got to know his limitations" - Eastwood, Clint - 1973.
So.....
BODYWORK.
FRONT:
No brainer, bolt on. Straight swap of wings, inner wings, bumper and a few other small parts. A little rewiring will get the high beams and fogs sorted out. All new seals, rubber and gaskets of course.
Printed out the EPC on both cars and compared what I need and don't need.
I am trying to decide if backdating the car from it's current "facelift" guise to pre-facelift is something to consider.
SIDE:
Skirts from 500E.
REAR:
Bumper: I decided to use the 500E's rear bumper in lieu of the AMG item.
Wings: Here is where I am having problems and would like to tap into the general and collective wisdom of the list.
I have looked at several conversion pics.
1) E36T. 124-092.
2) An M119 motor in an E320T conversion with flares front and rear.
3) A 500E that has it's top cut off and an estate top grafted on.
4) The Hammer Wagon.
5) The AMG E7.3T which I believe is currently in Russia but I am not sure.
The only one that "got it right" was the 7.3T. The other bodies, nice that they are, just don't seem right IMHO.
The 500E's bodies flares out a little and just to stick fender flares (from a 500SL) or quarter panels from a 500E without addressing the body flare makes the car look like a boy racers wet dream from a Demon Tweeks catalogue.
AMG did address the situation in installing wider wheels on an Estate
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/W124/ page 10, but that's only wheel related, I don't think it flares the body out that much. In any event the estate's body cannot be flared out without major surgery.

I heard that AMG grafted the SL front fender flares on the 500E rear quarters and then put that on the estate but hearing and knowing are two different things.
Of course one also has to change part of the rear floor in the Estate. The left and right floor and wheelhouse have different part numbers (HWA) for the AMG E36T versions according to the EPC.
Then there's the wheelhouse, inner fenders, should I use 500E inner and outer or 500SL inner and outer? Or maybe those from a coupe?
The rears, unlike the fronts, are welded in.
I am reluctant to buy new rear quarter panels from a 500E and front fenders from a 500SL not to mention the various inner fenders and floor sections just to see if they "might" look right.
As a side note, the 500E front flares are bonded on regular 124 front fenders. No separate stamping dies were used for the entire fender. Hence the "executed in plastic" 500E fenders that were made. I'd like to compare, side by side, the SL front flares and 500E front flares. Seems unlikely that MB had new dies made for just the flares on one model but..... ???

When work starts I will post pics, and part numbers, but like anything else in life one needs a road map, a plan, before ordering and cutting.
So... any suggestions, comments, etc., before I open the wallet and buy cutting disks are more than welcome.

The suspension has the usual tried and true upgrades.
Front: Bilstein Sports, Limo bar, 500E brakes, sportline bushings, 7.5X17 AMG Mono II with 225/45/17s.
Rear: 500E sway bar, sportline bushings, 500E brakes, 8.5X17 AMG Mono II with 235/45/17.
Wheels spokes are painted Malachite Green and rims are polished.
Interior: Burl Walnut replaced the Zebrano trim, mostly because I like saying the German word "Wurzelholz."
Thanks for any input.

Kind Regards,

Ron

500E
E320T
--------
TC
120
356
MGA Deluxe
Bob Jackson Single Seater with 10 (TEN!!!), forward gears.
Ghibli
JD 318 "Monoposto" in Lotus Livery.
Continental R
and more junk laying around.

 

[swannymere]

I'll follow this eagerly as i want to do something similar-ish.

 

[219]

Ron , I wish you luck in whatever you plan to do .

I can't comment too much as I haven't attempted anything like this myself .

However , another possibility is the earlier M117 5 litre V8 as fitted to the W126 , R107 etc . Whilst the earlier engines do not have the same power output as the M119 , they do still offer a useful increase in bhp and , more importantly , torque over the 320 . W126 donor cars can be picked up very cheaply and have a much simpler ignition and injection system which lessens the electronic side of the installation . There have been quite a few conversions using these units into both W123 and W124 cars .

There are a couple of people in the UK who do these conversions commercially ( one down in Devon or Cornwall - OsirisV8 over on the Mercedes-190.co.uk website , and Martyn Marrocco based in Scarborough , who is a member of the official MBOC ) .

 

[RBYCC]

Both the "Hammer" ( 6.0 DOHC ) and the "Mallet" ( 6.0 SOHC ) AMG S124's retained the original body work with the addition of the GEN I kit.

Typically used a 1" wider 7.5 x 16 wheel with 205/55 VR16 tires.
AMG spacers were used on the lower rear front fender.

I don't believe the 500E front fenders are grafted on to a stock 124 fender.
If I recall they are a one piece steel stamping made exclusively for the 500E/E500.

Also not aware of any non metallic add on flares ever made for any 124 model.
The C124 wide body AMG kit is a steel stamping which is an add on flare.

You can easily achieve a flare by overlaying a stock wheel arch section on top of the stock fender.
The contour of the flare is dependent on how much you relief cut and bend out the stock fender.

If you go to my widebody build in the project section you can see this technique used on the front fenders.
Post 99 on the below link will give you a better idea of how to add the flare

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/mbclub-projects/70857-300ce-widebody-7.html

Post 199 and 204 will give you the finished and primed flare.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/mbclub-projects/70857-300ce-widebody-14.html

Ed A.

 

[RBYCC]

A few pix of a 1987 "Hammer" 6.0L DOHC S124.
Built by AMG North America in Westmont Illinois USA
Began life as a Canadian delivery S124 diesel.
Sold earlier this year at auction for about USD $43K

 

[Ron500E]

I don't believe the 500E front fenders are grafted on to a stock 124 fender.
If I recall they are a one piece steel stamping made exclusively for the 500E/E500.

Also not aware of any non metallic add on flares ever made for any 124 model.
The C124 wide body AMG kit is a steel stamping which is an add on flare.


Ed A.

Hello Ed:



Thanks for the pics, the Hammer wagon that was built in Westmont is now owned by Jonathan at Blue Ridge as you probably know. Lucky *******!!!



BTW, YOUR efforts and car were/are the inspiration for my small project.



I have studied, because I own a pair, 500E front fenders and the flares themselves are indeed bonded on, it is not a one piece stamping. I even brought them to a dealer who has a Mercedes authorized body repair facility and they agreed. Looking at the back it is pretty obvious. The reason this came to my attention is I planned on bringing them to Redi-Strip for paint removal but since no one knew what chemicals were used in the bonding process I didn't want to take a chance of my one piece fender becoming two pieces again.

I'm just wondering if the 129 SL flares were used on the 124-036 E series front fenders or are the 036 front flares (flares alone, not complete fenders) a separate stamping. I would need to examine an untouched SL front fender to determine whether those flares (on the SL) were also bonded on or were the fenders a complete separate stamping.



The non metallic items (fenders-wings) are not just the flares, although AMG did produce those at one time, but complete fenders. Part numbers are 124 881 41 01 for the left and 124 881 4201 for the right fenders-wings. "Kunststoffausfuehr" which translates into "executed in plastic" or "plastic implement" according to Young Miss Rima, official German translator for obscure car things in my life. Anyway they are identified in the EPC, 124-036 (Standard), in Group 88 - "attachment parts," section 015 - "front fender," number 5. I was offered a set about a month ago in Luxembourg along with a genuine NOS in-the-crate M119 E60 motor, but that's another story...



Regarding the AMG flares, a set, in rubber, turned up on Yahoo Auctions Japan about 6 months ago and sold for around $400 USD I recall. Had part number HWA 124 690 0108. I bid and I think Ric (2phast) did also, neither one of us were successful, well, at least I wasn't.

The GRP item, HWA 124 690 0096, is very very rare, maybe an AMG Japan only item. Used late in the 124 production from what I remember.

Thinking about it, "flares" may be the wrong word for the rubber items, "lip extensions" is more accurate, but the GRP items, they are flares - no doubt. Match up to the late front and rear bumpers too.

FWIW, the E73T is less AMG and more E500E as far as the body is concerned. In that famous pic of the rear, it looks like a E500E rear bumper (modified to fit the tailgate of course) and skirts were used, not AMG items.

Kind Regards,



Ron

Should have only a bicycle but..



E320T Malachite Green/Mushroom

 

[d w124]

The GRP item, HWA 124 690 0096, is very very rare, maybe an AMG Japan only item.
Thinking about it, "flares" may be the wrong word for the rubber items, "lip extensions" is more accurate, but the GRP items, they are flares - no doubt.

I to think that itwas a Japan item only,i`ve been looking for them for a very long time without any luck.Only seen them on Japanese cars

Back to your car,I`ll be looking this with much interest

 

[RBYCC]

Hello Ed:



Thanks for the pics, the Hammer wagon that was built in Westmont is now owned by Jonathan at Blue Ridge as you probably know. Lucky *******!!!

Ron

That was one of the three true "Hammers" owned by Aaron Ruskin in L.A.
His Hammer Coupe also sold in the low $30K range.
He still owns a 17K mile Hammer sedan that I treied to buy in 2008.
I've been communicating recently with the owner of a 1987 300TE "Mallet" ( 6.0L SOHC ) which was featured in Car&Driver and the Star.
Also built by Westmont.
May again consider it if I ever get my build done !!!!



BTW, YOUR efforts and car were/are the inspiration for my small project.

Thanks much !!!



I have studied, because I own a pair, 500E front fenders and the flares themselves are indeed bonded on, it is not a one piece stamping. I even brought them to a dealer who has a Mercedes authorized body repair facility and they agreed. Looking at the back it is pretty obvious. The reason this came to my attention is I planned on bringing them to Redi-Strip for paint removal but since no one knew what chemicals were used in the bonding process I didn't want to take a chance of my one piece fender becoming two pieces again.

That is very interesting....I never really inspected one off of the car...
Lends creedence to my belief that AMG was using stampings from other models to make their widebody kits.
Would make sense to avoid tooling for low production parts.

I'm just wondering if the 129 SL flares were used on the 124-036 E series front fenders or are the 036 front flares (flares alone, not complete fenders) a separate stamping. I would need to examine an untouched SL front fender to determine whether those flares (on the SL) were also bonded on or were the fenders a complete separate stamping.

Possibility...I found the Porsche 911 rear flares when cut down to be fairly identical to what was supplied in the AMG C124 WB kit.
I always thought the Porsche 944S flares looked very close to the W126 AMG widebody kit



The non metallic items (fenders-wings) are not just the flares, although AMG did produce those at one time, but complete fenders. Part numbers are 124 881 41 01 for the left and 124 881 4201 for the right fenders-wings. "Kunststoffausfuehr" which translates into "executed in plastic" or "plastic implement" according to Young Miss Rima, official German translator for obscure car things in my life. Anyway they are identified in the EPC, 124-036 (Standard), in Group 88 - "attachment parts," section 015 - "front fender," number 5. I was offered a set about a month ago in Luxembourg along with a genuine NOS in-the-crate M119 E60 motor, but that's another story...

That is a very interesting discovery....
AMG apparently made so much stuff through out the world that it's difficult to catalogue everything...but that is typical of an independent tuner.
No different then the elusive and oft times referred to as "mythical" C124 WB AMG kit...which many know resides in a garden shed, guarded by gnomes in the UK !!!



Regarding the AMG flares, a set, in rubber, turned up on Yahoo Auctions Japan about 6 months ago and sold for around $400 USD I recall. Had part number HWA 124 690 0108. I bid and I think Ric (2phast) did also, neither one of us were successful, well, at least I wasn't.

The GRP item, HWA 124 690 0096, is very very rare, maybe an AMG Japan only item. Used late in the 124 production from what I remember.

Thinking about it, "flares" may be the wrong word for the rubber items, "lip extensions" is more accurate, but the GRP items, they are flares - no doubt. Match up to the late front and rear bumpers too.

FWIW, the E73T is less AMG and more E500E as far as the body is concerned. In that famous pic of the rear, it looks like a E500E rear bumper (modified to fit the tailgate of course) and skirts were used, not AMG items.

Kind Regards,



Ron

Should have only a bicycle but..



E320T Malachite Green/Mushroom

AMG Japan has produced some Japan "only" stuff...such as a AMG 400E...
They have gone far beyond any other AMG installer....

Good luck sounds like a great build...
The UK forum is a treasure trove of knowledge and not inhabited by young kids who just like to slam them and run them into the ground...

Some real enthusiasts here !!!

 

[RBYCC]

Ron

See if you can move your thread to the "Project" area...

It will get more attention..

Ed A.

 

[Ron500E]

Regarding the "rubber lip" fender flares. Here's a pic of them installed on a car currently on Auctions Yahoo Japan.

????????95y???????E400AMG4.2?????? - Yahoo!??????

Also, in my previous post I forgot to publicly thank Young Miss Rima for the German translation of the plastic fenders. YMR does all my obscure German-English car translations.

Kind Regards,

Ron

 

[RBYCC]

Ron

Joe F in Canada sent me a picture of the back side of the 500E fenders he has for sale..
He seems to believe it is a stamping as it is very smooth.

Does your set look like this ?

Ed A.

 

[jaymanek]

whats GRP?

 

[Stratman]

whats GRP?

Glass reinforced plastic.

Fibreglass to everybody else.

 

[jaymanek]

ahh... orrible stuff... I hated using it on the front of my widebody... and in time I may have some steel front wings made up.

 

[antonyw124]

Thank you for posting all this information. I am really looking forward to tracking this as it progress. Good luck with the build

 

[Ron500E]

Ron

Joe F in Canada sent me a picture of the back side of the 500E fenders he has for sale..
He seems to believe it is a stamping as it is very smooth.

Does your set look like this ?

Ed A.

Ed:

Hmmmm. No, mine look slightly different, sort of like the flares were bonded on... I will get some pics of mine soon. They are in the country and I only go there on some weekends.
Is it possible to get the VIN number of the car these came off?
This is trivia for AMGDave (GSXR) and his database, sort of like the metal vs. plastic oil tube production break in the M119 heads.

So now we have Front Fenders that:
1) Have flares that were bonded on.
2) Are one piece stampings.
3) Executed in plastic.

My fenders came off a early 1992 (1991 build date I think) that was hit in the rear. I'll dig out the VIN number later today.

It's probably best that we get this straightened out sooner rather than later for the sake of the poor restorer 20 years from now if nothing else.
Thanks Ed.

Kind Regards,

Ron

 

[BAD300]

very interesting. Be looking @ this thread!

 

[RBYCC]

Ed:

Hmmmm. No, mine look slightly different, sort of like the flares were bonded on... I will get some pics of mine soon. They are in the country and I only go there on some weekends.
Is it possible to get the VIN number of the car these came off?
This is trivia for AMGDave (GSXR) and his database, sort of like the metal vs. plastic oil tube production break in the M119 heads.

So now we have Front Fenders that:
1) Have flares that were bonded on.
2) Are one piece stampings.
3) Executed in plastic.

My fenders came off a early 1992 (1991 build date I think) that was hit in the rear. I'll dig out the VIN number later today.

It's probably best that we get this straightened out sooner rather than later for the sake of the poor restorer 20 years from now if nothing else.
Thanks Ed.

Kind Regards,

Ron

Ron

I believe Joe F. bought just the set of 500E fenders to put on a 124 Cab he was building which he is now parting out because he found a W140 he likes...

How's that for confusion ????

Anything is possible as far as variants especially if you have fenders from a very early build....

Ed A.

 

[d w124]

Regarding the AMG flares, a set, in rubber, turned up on Yahoo Auctions Japan about 6 months ago and sold for around $400 USD I recall. Had part number HWA 124 690 0108. I bid and I think Ric (2phast) did also, neither one of us were successful, well, at least I wasn't.

The GRP item, HWA 124 690 0096, is very very rare, maybe an AMG Japan only item. Used late in the 124 production from what I remember.[/QUOTE]

They are rare and looks like they were a bargain
A set I had my eyes on just sold in Japan for 74.000 yen
560 POUNDS for a set of these