W124 early or late ?

[bennesspipers]

I have a '94 model C220 W202, & from what iv seen for myself & read on here mine hasn't got any of the rust problems of the post '96 C's. I'm now considering buying a W124 (possibly E200 or 220) & i'd appreciate your views on whether to look out for - pre 93, post 93, or post 96. So bearing in mind what iv read about post 96 paint/metal problems & the 5 speed auto box being more trouble than the 4 speed, what are your thoughts ?

 

[davidbilyk]

Morning!

I think the difference between pre 93, or post 93 are personal taste. My brother had a 1990 E200 for 3 years and had no issues at all, rust wise, from my experience they are about the same.

I have to say that the pre facelift is growing on me more and more!!!

 

[grober]

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/general-discussion/73948-build-quality-ce300-320-w124.html

 

[bennesspipers]

Hi Grober, can you confirm what i suspect, that the degrading wiring/water based paint only started when Chrysler got tangled up with MB, ie '96-ish ?

 

[grober]

Water based paint was gradually phased into the mercedes production lines but started about 93/94 ish?? This was due to new environmental regs affecting all manufacturers concerning release of solvents in the production process The biodegradeable wiring dated from about 95 onwards ?? and again was introduced as an environmental measure to help old scrapped wiring to biodegrade in landfill- unfortunately it started in biodegrade in the cars. So later W124s were potentially affected by both issues

 

[bennesspipers]

Is there any way of finding out at what chassis number the rubbish wiring started at ?

 

[kth286]

Is there any way of finding out at what chassis number the rubbish wiring started at ?

All 104 HFM engines are included from when the 320 and 280 engines were introduced about late 1992.

Note that this advanced engine was also in the later pre facelift cars.

So, in total 1992 to 1996 seem to be the problem years.

As this engine was also in the top line S class cars until 1998 the later cars seem not to be affected. That also included the later SL sports cars (129)
and the 210 generation cars - all these later cars seem not to be affected.

 

[Shude]

Water based paint was gradually phased into the mercedes production lines but started about 93/94 ish?? This was due to new environmental regs affecting all manufacturers concerning release of solvents in the production process The biodegradeable wiring dated from about 95 onwards ?? and again was introduced as an environmental measure to help old scrapped wiring to biodegrade in landfill- unfortunately it started in biodegrade in the cars. So later W124s were potentially affected by both issues

What's weird about the paint thing is that 95-97 W210 models were mostly unaffected and practically all solid (non-metallic) painted cars also avoided the paint/rust problems! I've seen a few mid-late 90s w210 models in very flat paint colours knocking around with no apparently no rust at all!

The wiring thing was earlier in the 90s and affected 140s among others too.

 

[bennesspipers]

I thought the 220 & 200 engines of early 90's were the same as in the C's, am i wrong then, whats this 104 HFM engine ?

 

[kth286]

I thought the 220 & 200 engines of early 90's were the same as in the C's, am i wrong then, whats this 104 HFM engine ?

Yes, sorry Grober diverted us away to 300/320 engines with his link.

You should not have the expensive wiring loom problems with the 4 pot engines, although there has been some reports of some problems in the wiring.

 

[bennesspipers]

Do you mean problems in the wiring in the 92-96 years ?

 

[bennesspipers]

Where's The Boss when you need him

 

[bennesspipers]

Can anyone tell me precisely when the biodegradable wiring started to be fitted on the W124 , build date or chassis numbers ? OR, How can you tell (say by looking under the bonnet) if its pre or post wiring problem start ?

 

[MD5]

The answer is in post no 7, ie M104 HFM engines, so any E280 or E320 is vulnerable, although I've read elswhere that 95 is the cut off, with others disagreeing! The wiring loom to the ingnition coils may show signs of becoming brittle and splitting, so you would need to remove the cover to the plugs, but it may also deteriorate further along the loom, out of sight. The section to the plugs is most vulnerable due to the heat from the engine, and brittle looms may be disturbed during a plug change/service, causing exposed wires to make contact, sometimes atthe cost of ECUs etc.

Druk has done an extensive "post mortem" of expired looms, and is convinced that the MB repair kits are not a wise move, due to the extent of the splitting. Some others I have spoken to state that the static parts of the loom shouldn't cause a problem if undisturbed.

 

[bennesspipers]

Thanx MD5,for explaining that,sounds like i need to find one built in 1994 or earlier to avoid wiring /paint-rust/5 speed auto probs, thanx

 

[d w124]

Thanx MD5,for explaining that,sounds like i need to find one built in 1994 or earlier to avoid wiring /paint-rust/5 speed auto probs, thanx

Actually mate you`ll need to find before 93,but let me add:If you looking for 200 or 220,you don`t need to worry about the loom.

 

[mattc]

Thanx MD5,for explaining that,sounds like i need to find one built in 1994 or earlier to avoid wiring /paint-rust/5 speed auto probs, thanx

Not true, mine from 1994 has been replaced this year.

For the sake of safety assume ALL wiring looms on 320/280's are vulnerable. Look for evidence in the service history of a wiring loom change (given the size of the invoice for the loom its a given that people will have it if they have replaced it in the last 5 years!). If it cannot be proven assuming it HAS NOT been changed is the safest course of action.

 

[bolide]

Wiring loom is around £550. There are bigger bills than this in the future of all cars of that age, not just W124s, so I wouldn't get hung up on it. The front wings on all the cars will rust at some point so I wouldn't get hung up on that either. 4-speed vs 5-speed? Depends who you talk to. All auto boxes have a finite life

It's entirely possible to spend £1500 bringing a W124 up to speed so buy carefully

Limiting yourself to pre-1994 cars just restricts your choice and makes all the cars you look at 2-3 years older

Nick Froome

 

[bennesspipers]

Thanx to dw124, mattc,& bolide for that info, just left with 1 little puzzle though, how come W124's suffer with rust/paint problems in 1994, when its obvious that the W202's rust/paint didnt start until well into 1995 ?

 

[Roger Jones]

Is the corrosion down to water-based paint (my bodyshop owner doubts it), priming/undercoating with inferior stuff, poor preparation, poor application, poor steel, poor design (the areas it hits may be intrinsicaly vulnerable without additional protection), variable build quality in different plants, . . . ? The water-based paint was introduced at different times in different plants on different models. The fact that the front wings of all W124s go eventually suggests a design issue to me: if only those arch lips had been covered (as on the R129) and the area in front of the arches shielded from crud.

I'd still go for a good late model over a good earlier one, other things being equal.