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W124 Pressure in Fuel Tank

Placid Casual

New Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
24
Location
Leicester, UK & Wrocław, PL
Car
W124 260E, Alfa Romeo GT
I've had my 260E for a month now, covered 1000 miles, and filled up 4 times (averaging 27mpg).
Each time I take the cap off, there's a rush of air.
I understand that fuel is cold when underground and expands a bit in the tank as it warms up, but this seems a bit more than I'd expect.

Any ideas? Is it a problem? Just the time of year?

Ta.
 
There is a tank vent that is designed to mop up fuel vapour and stop any build up of pressure or vacuum in the tank. The vent pipe runs all the way to the front of the car to a rectangular filter under the wing behind the wheel arch liner [passenger side] Its evacuated by engine vacuum via an electrical or vacuum controlled valve. The symptoms you have are down to poor tank venting due to a clogged filter.
Mercedes-Benz Teilekatalog (Ersatzteile online)
 
I've had it on some cars and not on others, so it seems to be the case that it happens on every car, and some just relieve the pressure better than others.
 
There is a tank vent that is designed to mop up fuel vapour and stop any build up of pressure or vacuum in the tank. The vent pipe runs all the way to the front of the car to a rectangular filter under the wing behind the wheel arch liner [passenger side] Its evacuated by engine vacuum via an electrical or vacuum controlled valve. The symptoms you have are down to poor tank venting due to a clogged filter.
Mercedes-Benz Teilekatalog (Ersatzteile online)

Cheers Graham.
Clogged filter? Or the vent valve isn't opening properly?
 
Cheers Graham.
Clogged filter? Or the vent valve isn't opening properly?
Could be either, but often owners neglect to change the filter which despite evacuation [ if the evac system is still working] eventually clogs up over the years]
here's a picture of where its located [car wing removed for other reasons] normally you would drop the wheelarch liner
a03484cs-960.jpg

part no is
A 124 470 03 59 but may be superceded by now.
best way to test is to temporarily remove the flexible connection to the filter that comes from the pipe from rear of the car- If your problem disappears with the tank now venting to air then that's your problem
 
We are discussion secondary evap systems here, a series of device(s) which capture petrol fuel vapours of which when released to atmosphere created ozone brown clouding in urban conurbations.

Upon start up the engine manifold vacuum system is connected by a purge valve to the tank to burn off these vapours and create a partial vacuum in the tank up to about 2kp of negative pressure. This pressure is monitored by the system and if there is a leak to atmosphere it will throw a code. Consequently keeping the fuel cap tight through the cap ratchet system makes sure you don't induce a code and CEL on the dashboard.

Yes as Grover as taken the time to point out, there is a carbon filter canister located on the car, (and on any modern petrol driven car) that absorbs these vapours since it is filled with a carbon stack filter.

Should the carbon filter become saturated with raw fuel it will affect how the car runs and be pollutive. ( Such as high HC tail pipe outputs which will affect air fuel ratios and 02 sensors going haywire & emission compliance failures )

The system is monitored by the PCM through the I/M 240 readiness monitors and it will show closed , open or inconclusive, should a fault or potential fault (s) be present. (like leaving the cap loose! )
As a comment these systems are designed NOT to work above 6000 ft since they can affect driveability. Consequently it is not unusual to have a car throw a CEL if you have gone to higher altitudes above 6000 and the PCM is doing a re-learn.
For that reason most places where an e test is performed and the I/M 240 monitors are part of the E test you are allowed to have one monitor open which is usually "surprise surprise" the Sec/Evaps system! There are some places that require a closed monitor , California and parts of Arizona off the top of my head require all I/M 240 monitors to be closed at test time.

The biggest cause of saturated carbon filters by the way are are drivers/users who top off the tank by brimming it. If you are a Brimmer with a "Bimmer" (BMW aka Bavarian Money Waster ) :D refrain from doing that ! You can end up with an expensive emissions related repair .

With a slight negative pressure normally existing in the tank especially after a long run & you are about to fuel up, a slight hiss of air entering the tank as you open the cap is normal especially on hot days.
Gasping or gulping expulsion of fuel especially during filling is a result of the check valve sticking in the system, you have pipework valve issues as mentioned.

The MB system is fairly standard across the models, like Toyota & other Asian makes . For me Ford is super complicated where it doesn't need to be and Chrysler is-----Well something else! With three systems and you don't know what you are getting until you get under the car! !!!!

By the way if any of you have a Prius in the family, the tank is equipped with a bladder that closes the space inside the tank to prevent a large amount of empty tank space building up as you use the fuel approaching to "empty" .Of course the space is where the larger volume of negative pressure exists on more normal cars and the potential of pollutant expulsion is greater. Hence no "hiss" on a "Prissss"--Ooowh poet and didn't know it! ;)
If you have problems with not getting enough fuel in the tank on a Prius then you most likely have a bladder problem and that can be a real expensive pi$$$er!
Take care
Tuercas Viejas
 
Last edited:
Could be either, but often owners neglect to change the filter which despite evacuation [ if the evac system is still working] eventually clogs up over the years]
here's a picture of where its located [car wing removed for other reasons] normally you would drop the wheelarch liner
a03484cs-960.jpg

part no is
A 124 470 03 59 but may be superceded by now.
best way to test is to temporarily remove the flexible connection to the filter that comes from the pipe from rear of the car- If your problem disappears with the tank now venting to air then that's your problem

Grover with all lt that welding/scorching on the inner fender panel that rig in the picture you posted must be one real lace curtain rot box!:D
Dennis
aka Tuercas Viejas
 
Grover with all lt that welding/scorching on the inner fender panel that rig in the picture you posted must be one real lace curtain rot box!:D
Dennis
aka Tuercas Viejas

Nothing to do with me fortunately. Just a picture randomly chosen of T'internet because it illustrated the position of the filter. I agree it looks a bit of a basket case! :eek:
 
Nothing to do with me fortunately. Just a picture randomly chosen of T'internet because it illustrated the position of the filter. I agree it looks a bit of a basket case! :eek:

One thing I will state is that we Brits are the pinnacle of bodge and Michael Angelo fiberglass sculpting of body work with filler. Only Colombians (Los Latoneros) are perhaps better when straightening out a car that has looked like was kicked around Caracas for about week!

Only last did we replace a beautifully UK backstreet sculpted Landrover 110 Defender chassis frame that had more rust in it and holes than pure metal.
The undersell was so well applied that it looked factory fresh to the casual eye .:fail
T/V
 
That makes sense, I reconditioned the system, replaced the filters etc about a year ago and it made the vacuum in the fuel tank even more pronounced.
Could it be that if you are not getting a vacuum in a 124 your system may not be functioning properly.
 

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