W124 Springs/Suspension question

[Bill_33]

The front springs, wishbones and ball joints have just been replaced on my 300TE.

A few questions:

1). The front "ride height" seems high - the garage that did the work, (an MOT Centre), told me that the height would "settle down" after a few miles......is this true?
2). Does anyone know what the ride height should be in cm.....say when measured from the centre of the front wheel to the lip of the front wing.
3). When the springs are replaced....is it normal to replace all four?..is that the problem........do the rears need replacing
4). The back end may need some work.........if there is a problem with the SLS system on the Estate, can this be replaced by fitting normal "shocks"

Any other comments that could help me?........my once 300TE....which I thought was OK....has now had lots of parts replaced and may need some other work, (£££)

Cheers

 

[franey]

The wishbones at the front are mounted in bushes to the chassis.
There is no svivel point on the mount, in other words the bush centre is not a pivot. The rubber part is the pivot if you get my meaning.
When the arms are replaced and the vehicle is on a ramp, the unaware fitter may inadvertently tighten the wishbone mounting bolts therfore 'locking' the wishbones at a fully extended ride height as the springs are pushing them down.
I believe the correct method is to allow the car to settle on its own weight and then tighten the bolts when the car is on the ground.
However, you now have the problem that you may throw out the tracking and or camber if you are not careful (assuming the garage tracked it after fitting?)
To summarise: Reach under car and undo wishbone bolts, retighten. The car will then sit lower.

 

[grober]

There is a book to be written on all the suspension settings of the w124. First there were nominally two lengths of springs red short and blue long. Ride height was adjusted by the use of different thickness of spring pad THUS long spring +slim pad combined height =short spring+thick pad combined height. Indeed many people use these pads to "lower" their cars. -- then there were normal duty, heavy duty and sports springs with different ratings and in the case of sports lower height. Where folks normally get the ride height off is with the wrong spring+pad combination. Where did you get your springs---- if they were after market and not MB did the mechanic check them against the original spring pad combination height off the car before fitting. its true the springs may settle slightly but if the ride height is way off that ain't gonna happen soon. have a look at the "small print" here http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...GM=717.433&CT=F&cat=15U&SID=32&SGR=015&SGN=01

there are lots of posts about this on the forum.

 

[Bill_33]

Thanks guys

(the car is new to me)

The MOT Centre fitted the Springs - I am not sure were they came from but I would think that they are NOT MBZ........they are painted black
I was informed by the MBZ centre that the wheels were tracked and camber angles adjusted.


I did search and read most of the old threads on the Forum, and I added a few other queries:


2). Does anyone know what the standard ride height should be in cm.....say when measured from the centre of the front wheel to the lip of the front wing.
3). When the springs are replaced....is it normal to replace all four?..is that the problem........do the rears need replacing
4). The back end may need some work.........if there is a problem with the SLS system on the Estate, can this be replaced by fitting normal "shocks"

Cheers

 

[franey]

Bill.
The correct springs on the MB's are accurately identified by numerous factors depending on the spec of the car.
For example if you have A/C, Sunroof, radio etc.
There are about six different part numbers for the front springs on these and a generic aftermarket one is not necessarily the correct one.

However, if I were you I would try the exercise as previously pointed out by undoing the nuts when the car is on the floor before trying to take measurements. In their natural position the bushes should be unstrained.

As for the rear, I would pinpoint the fault and replace the part as replacing the shock absorbers will probably cost as much anyway.

 

[grober]

Thanks guys

(the car is new to me)

The MOT Centre fitted the Springs - I am not sure were they came from but I would think that they are NOT MBZ........they are painted black
I was informed by the MBZ centre that the wheels were tracked and camber angles adjusted.


I did search and read most of the old threads on the Forum, and I added a few other queries:


2). Does anyone know what the standard ride height should be in cm.....say when measured from the centre of the front wheel to the lip of the front wing.
3). When the springs are replaced....is it normal to replace all four?..is that the problem........do the rears need replacing
4). The back end may need some work.........if there is a problem with the SLS system on the Estate, can this be replaced by fitting normal "shocks"

Cheers

Lots of people seem to go by the distance between the top of the tyre and the lip of the front wing rather than from the centre of the wheel.

Lots of folk just replace 2 fronts springs together OR 2 backs together. It shouldn't be necessary to replace all 4- but many find they have to adjust ride height with different spring pads to get the car sitting level. If you want replace the self levelling rear shocks with standard ones you really need to change the springs too since the self levelling springs have different rates from the non self levelling ones AFAIK. The consensus seems to be its best to keep the self levelling system if possible . Quite often its the spheres that develop leaks or other parts if the system go faulty rather than the shocks themselves-if they are leaking fluid is the best sign they are faulty. Bolide's the expert on these.

 

[Bill_33]

Bill.
The correct springs on the MB's are accurately identified by numerous factors depending on the spec of the car.
For example if you have A/C, Sunroof, radio etc.
There are about six different part numbers for the front springs on these and a generic aftermarket one is not necessarily the correct one.

However, if I were you I would try the exercise as previously pointed out by undoing the nuts when the car is on the floor before trying to take measurements. In their natural position the bushes should be unstrained.

As for the rear, I would pinpoint the fault and replace the part as replacing the shock absorbers will probably cost as much anyway.

Thanks franey and grober

Thanks for your advice - I will have a go as you suggest
I read the link on the different springs, in fact I took a pdf copy.

The main problem at the back end is corroded SLS fluid pipes, (which will need replacement sometime in the future) and I am told, by the Indie, that if these are removed and replaced the car will need new spheres, etc. as these will be damaged when the bits are taken off........the quote to have this work done is not cheap.

By the way the story regarding the new springs, goes like this.......I bought a 300TE with a file of service records plus an MOT to June 2010. The steering was a little "funny", and after reading the forum I felt that a new set of ball joints was in order. Took the car to the "indie" to have the work done........he said "no point"...."the front suspension set up is seized" and he quoted me approx, £1,000 to do the work. Clearly I was not pleased so I called the MOT centre and the previous owner. The MOT centre immediately said that they would collect the car the next morning by Transporter.......I am maybe 80 miles from them. They fitted new wishbones, springs, ball joints etc, and tracked the car .........and guess what............it was FOC....that's correct.......Free of Charge.
Clearly they tightened the bolts while the car was "up in the air"....so that does not inspire confidence and I had to "stand" on the wheel nuts to undo them.........but a "result" with no hassle

A lesson, (maybe?) - if you buy a car with a very current MOT and you suspect the car has faults that could have NOT developed since the MOT was issued.....establish that these faults exist, (MBZ inspection), then contact the Centre......clearly they, (most should be), will be concerned to keep their MOT license and would not want any hassle from the DOT

 

[franey]

Aha!
It all becomes clear!

Ok so your outlay has been minimal, in which case I would replace the new front springs with some genuine correct ones if the other trick does not cure it. About 40 to 60 each IIRC.

 

[Bill_33]

Aha!
It all becomes clear!

Ok so your outlay has been minimal, in which case I would replace the new front springs with some genuine correct ones if the other trick does not cure it. About 40 to 60 each IIRC.

thanks again

I spent quite a lot of my early married life in Doncaster.....years ago......I worked for British Ropes, (Bridon....it became), and my wife taught at various schools....we lived in Cantley.........then emigrated south then further south........now very south, (for a Yorkshireman!), most of the time

Minimal outlay? - I have still to do the "back end" plus plus plus - it's a 19 year old W124

 

[renault12ts]

Lots of people seem to go by the distance between the top of the tyre and the lip of the front wing rather than from the centre of the wheel.

Lots of folk just replace 2 fronts springs together OR 2 backs together. It shouldn't be necessary to replace all 4- but many find they have to adjust ride height with different spring pads to get the car sitting level. If you want replace the self levelling rear shocks with standard ones you really need to change the springs too since the self levelling springs have different rates from the non self levelling ones AFAIK. The consensus seems to be its best to keep the self levelling system if possible . Quite often its the spheres that develop leaks or other parts if the system go faulty rather than the shocks themselves-if they are leaking fluid is the best sign they are faulty. Bolide's the expert on these.

The accurate way is to measure between wheel centre and lip, that way it does not matter what tyre is fitted.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

If your SLS pipes are leak tight at the moment, then, protect them with some oil / grease or waxoyl.

The spheres aren't necessarily damaged when you renew the pipes.

I concurr with Bolide's usual advice which is - do not even consider replacing the SLS with normal springs and dampers.

If the hydraulic struts of the SLS move freely and don't leak - they're OK.
If the suspension isn't ultra hard or ultra bouncy, the spheres are OK.

Make sure the linkage to the self levelling valve is free, and don't be tempted to tweak ride height by fiddling with the setting.

Rear coil springs are of a lower rate than those on other cars, and the springs themselves *almost* support the unladen car at the correct ride height.

 

[franey]

thanks again

I spent quite a lot of my early married life in Doncaster.....years ago......I worked for British Ropes, (Bridon....it became), and my wife taught at various schools....we lived in Cantley.........then emigrated south then further south........now very south, (for a Yorkshireman!), most of the time

Minimal outlay? - I have still to do the "back end" plus plus plus - it's a 19 year old W124

Parts are surprisingly cheap for the 124, I sell the spheres and other bits so give me a nod if you want any, Yorkshire Members Rates Apply!!

And I went to school in Cantley, your missus probably taught me, or at least tried!!

 

[grumpyartman]

Bill 33

It might be of some use to you to know you can repair the SLS lines that run to and from the reservoir in the engine bay to the spheres.

If the lines are corroded extensively then maybe not, but my experience was a leaking line where chafing had occurred near a retaining clip. In an accessible position.

MB car dealerships are not used to requests for unions to effect a repair but try a commercial MB dealer and like me you will be successful. I believe the Sprinters run a similar system.

I had cut out a small section because the clip placement interfered with the union. I cant remember exactly but I think the pipe is 6mm and a local Pirtek shop gave a foot for pennies. The unions are cheap too.
A litre or two of the correct MB fluid, none other, about £10/ltr.

Bar the running about, job took half hour. Release retaining clips ( if necessary ) as gently as poss to ensure refitting. The unions fit in an obvious matter. Keep it clean, deburr, square pipe ends and remove as much corrosion as poss from pipe where union will grip. Fit.Open reservoir cap, fill, load back with 120+kg = a couple of bods, start engine and run 1500 revs for a short time, purge any air, check for leaks and tighten if ness' then refill to level. jobs a good' un.

My repair's been good for a few years, touch wood.

 

[BlackC55]

The pipes in question are heavily corroded and attach to the spheres. Undoing them is a near impossibility as the corrosion is so bad the hex bolt is no longer there.

 

[grumpyartman]

Both the pipes connected to the spheres are short and only run to the self levelling valve, cut both pipes and replace with MB about £12 reportedly, use a gripping spanner that locks onto the knackered union you have access to after cutting the pipe, obviously release the pressure in the system first by undoing the banjo on the spheres slightly, the system will leak a litre or more, catch that in a tray. Mine required a breaker bar to undo, providing you have your rear jack points about 18 inches off the ground you will have adequate clearance to work under the car. If your pipes are this knackered i would consider swapping out the spheres at the same time.