W124 squeeking like an antique cupboard

[bluevenetian]

Early on Saturday I hit a rabbit on the A449 with the front offside of the car and while there was no apparent damage, with the exception of poor Peter R, the sounds coming from the front wheel is really astonishing -- in a bad way.
At speed, driving straight there is very little sound, but slow down and turn and it squeeks and creaks really badly... as in little old ladies stop in the street and children point badly.
The brakes are fine, the steering is fine and the local ATS had the car -- a S124 up on the ramps -- for a good poke around and couldn't find anything obvious. The mechanic thought it might be some grit or salt having got into the shock absorber, saying the unplanned meeting with the rabbit was a coincidence.
Any thoughts gratefully received.

 

[talbir]

Check the aluminium brake dust shields - they can get bent easily and be fouling the inner wheel rim on turning.

Best bet is to jack up front wheel, turn steering to full lock and spin wheel to see where it is fouling if so.

talbir

 

[Dee-124CAB]

If you turn lock to lock when stationary, does the squeaking continue?

Also when you push down on the car on the same side as the noise, does the noise persist?....

f so your symptoms are very similar to ones my car is making... I have been advised it may be the bushes, not particularly the ARB's,as iv had these done on my car, but the inner/outer bushes.

I will report back when I get mine done.

Cheers Dee

 

[bluevenetian]

yes, it makes a noise when stationary and when i turn the wheel. Also when i press down on that side of the bonnet, old creaky is vocal!

 

[Dee-124CAB]

Use the search facility on this forum, using keywords like W124, squeaking,etc etc. See what it throws up as I always find it useful when trying to work out a problem.

 

[bolide]

Creaking when turning the steering wheel, and at low speeds over speed humps, is a classic symptom of worn front balljoints

Balljoints are what the Americans describe as "Mission Critical" - ie they stop the wheel from disappearing up into the arch and the bottom wishbone from hitting the floor, propelled at speed by the front spring

£13 each from Mercedes

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[IMD]

Nick...are balljoints easy to fit? Could a person with basic mechanical knowledge do this?

 

[Ade B]

Creaking when turning the steering wheel, and at low speeds over speed humps, is a classic symptom of worn front balljoints

Balljoints are what the Americans describe as "Mission Critical" - ie they stop the wheel from disappearing up into the arch and the bottom wishbone from hitting the floor, propelled at speed by the front spring

£13 each from Mercedes

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

Unless you have the sport chassis option, then multiply that figure by 20.

Ade

 

[IMD]

I need to fit a new balljoint and wonder whether its an easy job?

 

[Ade B]

I need to fit a new balljoint and wonder whether its an easy job?

In my case I had to get the entire wishbone assembly replaced because the ball joints were not available on their own, this involved a specialist with a blow torch, so I'd say not particularly straightforward..

I think there are threads on here which outline the procedure for the standard fittings - there might be a special tool involved from memory (or said blow torch) for removing bushes...

IIRC its not an expensive job at an indy.


Ade

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>>I need to fit a new balljoint and wonder whether its an easy job?

That's a difficult question.

For an experienced mechanic, with a good toolkit, it's a very easy job to press new ball joints in (assuming your suspension does have press in balljoints).

For an average DIYer, with an average toolkit, as you need to deal with the coil spring and press the joint out & in, I would say take it to a garage.

 

[Dee-124CAB]

How does one know what type of ball joints they have? ie:"press in" ball joints or ones that are permenantly attached to the wishbones.

I was abe to obtain new ball joints from M-B by quoting my chassis number to them, & paid 13 quid per side for them...does that mean mine are the removable type?

Cheers Dee

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>>paid 13 quid per side for them

Yes, if the MB parts man got it right, they're the ones that press in. The only other option is where you need to replace all the wishbone - much more expensive.

 

[bluevenetian]

The front shocks and mounts were replaced and all four wheels aligned. After picking the car up from the garage it was blissful silence --- for about 20 mins and then the creaking started up again
The noise is not as bad as before, but is definitely there when turning at low speeds. There is no sound when you bounce the car up and down, just when turning.
A couple of you suggested worn ball joints, but surely the garage would have seen them when they examined the car????
Well I shall have to take it back next week -- a pain as its near enough a 2 hour round trip.
In the meantime, any views on whether it could still be the mission critical ball joints and advice on whether to drive to Kent from London on Sunday or let the train take the strain
Cheers

 

[BlackC55]

I think it will be a ball joint issue. They need to be tested for play properly and not everyone knows how to.

If the joint fails it can do horrndus damage so get it done asap.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>>but surely the garage would have seen them when they examined the car????

They are very easy to miss unless you know your onions. As the spring pushes down on the wishbone, the ball joints are heavily preloaded, and so, they can appear OK when checked by simply tugging on the wheel. The correct way to test them is to move the wishbone against the preload, (levering against the inner of the wheel rim is a good method) and only then will any play be seen.

In my case, I knew one of my balljoints needed doing, but, the car passed the MOT, as, clearly the MOT inspector didn't know what he was looking for. I changed it shortly afterwards, and the ball looked more like a rusty dimpled golf ball than a nice shiny machined ball, and the bearing / liner fell apart as I dismantled the joint.

Your symptoms sound exactly like ball joint failure, and I think bunny's demise was entirely coincidental.

 

[nick mercedes]

I need to fit a new balljoint and wonder whether its an easy job?

You need a big hammer...

 

[Smiley]

I think it will be a ball joint issue. They need to be tested for play properly and not everyone knows how to.

If the joint fails it can do horrndus damage so get it done asap.

Yep good advice again - someone who knows what they are doing needs to take a look, how many miles has the car done?

 

[bluevenetian]

Car has done 137k and it went to a mercedes specialist

 

[bigshineybike]

My car past its MOT with an advisory that the lower ball joints were worn. The garage that took the car for MOT told me they needed to be done for the MOT so I let them, it was winter and they only wanted £68 to do both sides.
5000 miles later one of the new joints gave way. (in 260,000 miles there is nothing in the cars extensive documented history of these joints being changed)
I was doing 20-30 MPH over speed humps.
The front wheel was now laid flat on the road, front wing is buckled, bonnet doesnt fit so good anymore.
I got taken home on a recovery truck, repairs took a little over an hour.
I bought two joints as the other side looked a bit rotten although I couldnt feel any play. As a precaustion I planned to change these soon.
(see advice by someone else above)
Of the two joints I bought one was Quinton Hazell looked as you might expect, bright machined steel pin, nicely greased housing and a disclaimer note in the box (only qualified mechs .blah blah)
the other joint was in a plain box, the centre pin was a rough black phosphate finish, no sign of grease, polybag or paper.
So I asked the auto shop to change this for another QH part, It would take a few days.
Within 50 miles the other side lower joint failed!
Lucky this time was outside my house as I manouvered into my parking spot!
The new part was now instock so I walked to the shop, fitting took 30 minutes ( I left all the spanners on the floor from last time).
I had expected to need a press to get the old joints out but was able to use a combination of axle stand, G clamp and trolley jack.
I was worried that the new joint pressed in too easily (the previous "qualified mechanic" had used a gas torch during removal).
They were easily pressed in by lowering the whole car onto an axle stand and then only lightly tapping the joint into place with a copper mallet.
I have driven the car for over a thousand miles now and the joints look nicely at home in the lower arm.

I have a new problem whichh may be related to the above episode.

Having done this work I have been listening especially carefully for rattles and have traced a rattle to the upper shock absorber nuts on both sides of the car. They are both loose enough that the top steel plate is rattling.
this is easy enough to fix by simply tightening with a spanner.
What I do not understand is why they have loosened?
Is there a bearing in the rubber block which is failing?

here is a link to a page about checking the lower ball joint;
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/W124/124_ball_joint_check.pdf