W124 suspension / handling options

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If you are going to drive this car in a way that justifies the set-up, then tyres will become critical, not just for grip but also for sidewall stiffness.
It might be an idea to start with a new set of Contis or Michelin on 7J wheels.
 
Wow lots of response!

The car has just had amg moboblocks fitted 18 x 8 and 18 x 9 on the rear.

Im hoping they make it feel more comfortable in the corners at normal speeds.

Also, this year im just hoping to get it looking the way i want. The rear is very high so lowering will be key. However, i want it to handle well in the future so id rather not buy twice - so an adjustable set up would be ideal - obviousely good quality.

As for brakes - d2 performance do a full kit. So 6 pots, braided lines, pads, discs (350mm) and fitting kit for a smidge over 1k - which as brakes go isnt that bad. Havent really reaearched anything other than the late 4 pot jobby, which is still a fairly small disc. Anyone have any reviews on the 4 pot upgrade?
 
HR adjustable cup kit on amazon for £500. Tempted!

Don't bother, that setup cant handle the nose weight of the 606.

Get a set of R129 sl500 springs, and Bilstein B8 shocks. For tyres you'll want to be looking at Bridgestone potenza's, or Michelin ps4. The sidewall of the conti's is too soft, I used to blow them out regularly.

Get a large rear roll bar, and a pair of estate drop links. The front roll bar can stay as it is. If your handy with a welder, weld in some reinforcement plates on top of the front spring pearches to spread the load out.
 
Surely the original 602 cant be that much lighter than the 606?!
 
Surely the original 602 cant be that much lighter than the 606?!

There's alot of weight in that engine, plus you now have an intercooler, oil cooler, turbo, and pipework ahead of the front axle line.

If you want it handle well, you need a setup that can control that weight at speed.
 
There's alot of weight in that engine, plus you now have an intercooler, oil cooler, turbo, and pipework ahead of the front axle line.

If you want it handle well, you need a setup that can control that weight at speed.

Just googles the om606 weighs 210kgs! Holy ****.

I see what your saying, it will have ''heavy duty'' springs as its a factory diesel with alot of weight up front, generic kits are made for any model.. petrol and diesel, without any accountability of the extra kgs.

Wonder if there is an adjustable spring set out there...
 
Hmmm, this is all rather interesting food for thought. I know extra weight forward of the front axle really mucks up the handling of a front wheel drive car (which is why a v6 converted Pug 306 will always be left behind on the twisty stuff by a stock 306 GTi6, much to their owners' surprise) but does it make that much difference to a rwd?

From all the videos I've seen the superturbodiesels basically 'handle' by drifting round corners on opposite lock, so I'd guess a quick steering box of some sort would be a good investment.

Also the E500 had a wider track and lowered suspension, so presumably the components used to make that would be a good place to start, assuming they're not made from gold-plated unobtanium...

Once again I'm intrigued to see the outcome of this so please carry on :thumb:
 
The rear axle of an E500 is from the 500SL and is wider than a standard W124 so the track is wider & the rear needs flares. AFAIK the front track is the same as standard but the wider wheels push the wheels out past the standard arches so the front needs flares as well

Carat 3.6 makes a good point about weight in front of the axle line. The six-cylinder petrol cars carry an additional 100 kg over the fours and most is in front of the axle line. The difference is very obvious when turning into corners. If the 606 is heavier again, and a turbo 606 yet heavier, then there will be a substantial difference

You could move some weight rearwards (battery, washer bottle, SLS bottle) but I doubt it would be worth it

The multivalve diesels have a washer bottle sandwiched between the manifold and the bulkhead by the battery. The place the washer bottle occupies on a petrol car is taken up by the air inlet on the diesels but maybe the new washer bottle location is partly a weight-shifting measure?

If it is, I don't think the weight of the washer fluid compares much with a 210 Kg engine...

Nick Froome
 
Good point, the inertia caused by the extra weight in front of the wheels is bound to affect turn-in. I've heard tales of people altering the W12x firewall and shortening the propshaft to move the engine / box back, but it seems like a lot of effort.

All this is news to me, the last commonly-modified performance RWD car I drove was the Ford Capri, and good handling on that basically meant it didn't spin off into the undergrowth on wet roads at parking speed :D

Edit: I wonder if you could get aftermarket 'Escort Mexico flares' or similar to produce the extra wheelarch coverage needed at the rear for a 500SL axle? Of course you'd have to get some fluffy dice to go with that, but I'd expect it'd be one helluva lot cheaper than buying / letting in the genuine AMG rear quarters.

BTW Palmer - I forgot to say, you could always try the 'old fashioned' way to stiffen / lower the suspension if you can't find any suitable springs - get a new set of heavy duty springs and cut a coil off :) Of course you'd definitely need adjustable dampers to do that, and it wouldn't work terribly well with tapered springs...
 
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... You could move some weight rearwards (battery, washer bottle, SLS bottle) but I doubt it would be worth it

The multivalve diesels have a washer bottle sandwiched between the manifold and the bulkhead by the battery. The place the washer bottle occupies on a petrol car is taken up by the air inlet on the diesels but maybe the new washer bottle location is partly a weight-shifting measure?

If it is, I don't think the weight of the washer fluid compares much with a 210 Kg engine...

Nick Froome
Insignificant compared to 210kg of engine but every little helps... SLS and washer bottles may only be a couple of kg each when full but the battery could be pushing 20, maybe even 25kg on it's own, if the diesels got a big 'un?
Going further, maybe too far, could always pull a mold off the bonnet (and some e500 wings if anyone would let you) and save a chunk more weight with some glass or carbon replacements
 
I think moving the battery would be a good first step. A set of battery cables from an E39 diesel touring would provide the necessary heavy-duty cable to remote mount it

The E39 has a neat positive battery terminal mounted on the inlet manifold and an earth post on the inner wing so you can attach jump cables. A nice touch

Nick Froome
 
Don't bother, that setup cant handle the nose weight of the 606.

Get a set of R129 sl500 springs, and Bilstein B8 shocks. For tyres you'll want to be looking at Bridgestone potenza's, or Michelin ps4. The sidewall of the conti's is too soft, I used to blow them out regularly.

Get a large rear roll bar, and a pair of estate drop links. The front roll bar can stay as it is. If your handy with a welder, weld in some reinforcement plates on top of the front spring pearches to spread the load out.


Haha, good old SL Springs, you just cant go wrong with them

@ Palmer, Mr.Carat is spot on mate, get yourself some R129 Sl500/600 springs and have a play with that, the Sl springs are the stiffest of the lot with spring rates in the high 70's N/mm. you can always have your own stiffer springs manufactured using the Sl springs as templates (ride height/spring rate data).
Don't bother moving items to the boot, its going to make very minimal changes and it needs careful position. Have your car corner weighed so you can see what your present corner / cross weight is, this would also help you with data if you go with adjustable springs perches route.
Don't just think static weight, you really need to consider weight transfer under acceleration and more important under braking, especially if you are thinking of fitting higher performance brakes.

mazza
 
Wow alot of thought into this (even more than i have!!)

Ok so stiffer r129 springs, bilsteim B8's. But how do i go about adjusting the ride height - spring perches?

Chris
 
Wow alot of thought into this (even more than i have!!)

Ok so stiffer r129 springs, bilsteim B8's. But how do i go about adjusting the ride height - spring perches?

Chris


The only way to get the ride that you seek is by chopping a bit of the spring and then get your own custom springs made or run it with a cut spring, it wont be a problem. Unfortunately its about fitting the springs and take it from there.

you could try and use a Yellow speed suspension kit, these come with adjustable spring perches and shocks that have been designed to work withing the adjustability limits. these kits come with custom spring rates (cant remember the range).
the advantage of this kits is you can fine tune the corner weights of the vehicle,it wont have the adjustability of a coilover set up but it works.


mazza
 
@Palmer

Here is some cross/corner weight data from a fully loaded (options) W124 E320
the vehicle was set up with front R129 Sl500 springs for tests and templating.
fitted with 17x8.25 Evo (ceginus alloys) 245/40 tyres.

your car will be slightly front heavier by a few kgs but the the W124 is nicely balanced from factory to achieve a good handling Cross weight percentage.

Hence why you should be very careful before you start moving bits from front to rear without the proper data.



hope this helps out
mazza
 
Re reading this thread, after a long drive today (200 miles) i have some new info

The new wheels have taken alot of the unstable feeling away. Feels much more planted in normal driving. Pressing on still some roll, and it feels bouncy.

The issue i have now is the front arches, it sits slightly lower on the right (tired spring?) And also catches the arch over some bumps, albeit not many. I think i need a real stiff setup to stop it bouncing so much. Ive rolled the front arches.

I dont think a hr kit will suffice, as they lower it, and it already sits nice (and catches) at stock height.

Heavy duty springs mentioned SL500 R129 are the stiffest i believe - so it looks in a few weeks that will the route ill take. Are they a straight fit?
 
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Update - rears catch with passengers too. SL springs all round then lol
 
Think you might need to think about wheelarch extensions (like the AMG widebody perhaps), from one of the pics you've posted it looks like the rear wheels stick out beyond the wheelarch, which is an MOT fail.

Aside from avoiding the potential wrath of an MOT inspector this would also make sure the wheels don't catch :)
 
I have just refreshed the suspension on my W124 – with the self imposed remit being that it should be sporty but also retain that W124 ride quality – I’m very pleased with the result, control and comfort. Interestingly over crests its been transformed – that’s Bilstien for you.



As Nick says – if its still on its old rubber bushings than they will be past there best and certainly not upto coping with a tuned OM606.First they will need replacing.


Upgrade wise the set up I have gone for is 500E ARB’s front and rear, Sportline springs, Bilstien B6 shocks and Meyle HD top mounts at the front.
Worth noting that Meyle also do HD transmission mounts and also HD diff bushings which have less air gaps and are physically longer that the OE ones.



Brake wise – it you are interested I have some E320 4 pots for sale complete with genuine OE merc discs. These are bolt on, however you will need some DPUK disc and calliper spacers if you have the larger style LCA ball joints – likely. £200.
 

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