W124 suspension just refurbished, now strange noises

[jazzdude]

Just picked my car up after having the following done to it:

replaced front and rear ARB bushes
replaced steering damper
replaced rear lower balljoints
replaced both sets of ties rods
replaced diff mounts

The difference is amazing, with the car rolling smoothly over bumps and potholes.

Before I took it, there was a noise coming from the rear passenger side, like a cricket chirping as it would go over bumps or uneven road surfaces. I hoped this would be cured as it might have been either a balljoint or tie rod, and for the first few miles of driving the car, it had gone. But now a few miles later I can hear it starting again. The only things I havent changed at the back were the trailing arm bushes and the subframe mounts. Could these be the culprits?

Also, I now have a creaking sound from the back as I reverse and turn the car down my ramp from the garage, as it crosses over to the road, and sometimes when turning.

This job cost a fortune and frankly I am dissappointed, so any help would be appreciated.

 

[trapperjohn]

I do feel for you in your current run of problems. Sorry I cant help with any of them.

 

[grober]

The commonest problem at the rear end are either broken springs or a problem with the front subframe mounts or where they mount to the body. After the extensive work done on the rear suspension I would have thought this would have been picked up? However the rear springs can break right up inside the spring rubber pad and slight movement there might give a chirping sound? As far as the front rear-subframe mounts are concerned you might only detect a problem if you were examining that area very closely. Just possibilities--- not a firm diagnosis. :d With a friend try bouncing the car on its suspension to try to find the location of the sound. Once narrowed down-if you can get a hand grip on the area or component you may be able to feel any play or movement. Be careful not to get any fingers trapped when you do this!!!

 

[ray_hennig]

Just picked my car up after having the following done to it:

replaced front and rear ARB bushes
replaced steering damper
replaced rear lower balljoints
replaced both sets of ties rods
replaced diff mounts

The difference is amazing, with the car rolling smoothly over bumps and potholes.

Before I took it, there was a noise coming from the rear passenger side, like a cricket chirping as it would go over bumps or uneven road surfaces. I hoped this would be cured as it might have been either a balljoint or tie rod, and for the first few miles of driving the car, it had gone. But now a few miles later I can hear it starting again. The only things I havent changed at the back were the trailing arm bushes and the subframe mounts. Could these be the culprits?

Also, I now have a creaking sound from the back as I reverse and turn the car down my ramp from the garage, as it crosses over to the road, and sometimes when turning.

This job cost a fortune and frankly I am dissappointed, so any help would be appreciated.

Difficult to distinguish between crickets "chirping" or "clicking", but when I got "clicking" from the rear of a W123 280TE it was a half shaft and MB in Tours (France) gave me a £500 spanking (in 1992).

Having said that, they were marvelous and fixed it while we had lunch and a bucket of Nouveau Beaujolais before sending us on our way to the Dordogne.

It was quite a day as we were travelling with our young children and towing a boat loaded with wardrobes, a sideboard and various other furniture and household stuff. Maybe that's what knackered the half shaft as the boat alone weighed nearly 2 tons with the trailer.

Sorry to be depressing but it is a possibility with rear-end noises (!).

R

PS: Sorry about the off-topic rambling. 2 glasses of Loire red to blame.

 

[WDB124066]

Have you replaced all the rear links, if not it does sound like it may be the spring link outer bush by the road wheel (attached), but in any case you should replace all the links, you cannot tell if they are OK or not just by pulling on them. And while you are in there do the subframe bushes as well. Rubber suspension parts have seen their best once over 100 - 125000 miles. Unfortunate but true.

I have a good contact for parts if you are interested as it can get eye watering - but the result is definitely worth it.

Half shafts do have a definite click to them but they normally start doing it when selecting reverse. I have just bought some as my higher mileage car was suffering from this badly, I suspect you need suspension rubber first though and if there is anything left over fresh springs on their own do make a nice difference too, believe it or not.

 

[kth286]

Difficult to distinguish between crickets "chirping" or "clicking", but when I got "clicking" from the rear of a W123 280TE it was a half shaft and MB in Tours (France) gave me a £500 spanking (in 1992).

Having said that, they were marvelous and fixed it while we had lunch and a bucket of Nouveau Beaujolais before sending us on our way to the Dordogne.

It was quite a day as we were travelling with our young children and towing a boat loaded with wardrobes, a sideboard and various other furniture and household stuff. Maybe that's what knackered the half shaft as the boat alone weighed nearly 2 tons with the trailer.

Sorry to be depressing but it is a possibility with rear-end noises (!).

R

PS: Sorry about the off-topic rambling. 2 glasses of Loire red to blame.

I really must bump into you when I am next in France !!!!

 

[kth286]

chirping can arise from the rusted rear brake shoe springs rubbing against the inside of the drum.

Anti roll bar bush bolts are often done up too tight.

Should be something like 20 Nm max to allow bar to turn/move inside bushes.

Garages often have ramps which leave the wheels hanging down with the suspension extended. Replacement bushes should never be tightened when car in this position - should only be tightened with car resting on wheels, otherwise the bushes will be twisted out of spec and be destroyed prematurely.

What do mean by 'rear lower ball joints' ?

 

[grober]

chirping can arise from the rusted rear brake shoe springs rubbing against the inside of the drum.

Anti roll bar bush bolts are often done up too tight.

Should be something like 20 Nm max to allow bar to turn/move inside bushes.

Garages often have ramps which leave the wheels hanging down with the suspension extended. Replacement bushes should never be tightened when car in this position - should only be tightened with car resting on wheels, otherwise the bushes will be twisted out of spec and be destroyed prematurely.

What do mean by 'rear lower ball joints' ?

kth286 makes a very good point about bushes only being finally tightened with the car resting on its wheels with the suspension loaded up.

 

[jazzdude]

When we bounce the car there is no noise.

It is definitely a chirping, a mouse squeaking, a whistling high pitched squeak, not loud. It mimics the bouncing up and down of the wheel over bumps and irregular surfaces, not a constant whine like if it was on a wheel. On smooth roads less prominent, on bouncy roads, you can imagine the wheel bouncing to the rhythm to the squeak, if you get my meaning.

By lower ball joints I mean the ones that are fixed to the lower wishbone, sort of at o'clock relative to the wheel hub.

I will take the car back to the garage and ask them to put it over the pit, loosen the bush mounts and then tighten them.

The front rear wheel subframe mounts were also changed. The rear ones and the trailing arm bush were not. Also the very thin link with the ball at the end was not changed.

 

[WDB124066]

This one? If you look out the window when driving will the car still go straight, or will it wonder a bit...?

 

[jazzdude]

yes, we didnt change that one.

The car doesn't wander, in fact the suspension feels very grounded and quite smooth.

 

[WDB124066]

This link has a ball joint in it, ball joints do tend to squeak when dry and worn...

Don't know if this one would, but it sounds plausible??

 

[jonthetourist]

Difficult to distinguish between crickets "chirping" or "clicking", but when I got "clicking" from the rear of a W123 280TE it was a half shaft and MB in Tours (France) gave me a £500 spanking (in 1992).

Having said that, they were marvelous and fixed it while we had lunch and a bucket of Nouveau Beaujolais before sending us on our way to the Dordogne.

It was quite a day as we were travelling with our young children and towing a boat loaded with wardrobes, a sideboard and various other furniture and household stuff. Maybe that's what knackered the half shaft as the boat alone weighed nearly 2 tons with the trailer.

Sorry to be depressing but it is a possibility with rear-end noises (!).

R

PS: Sorry about the off-topic rambling. 2 glasses of Loire red to blame.

I am coming to Tours (Mazieres) in September, so good to know there is a helpful dealer there.

Can't help with the OP problem, but keen to learn the outcome. I am approaching 100,000 miles and wondering about renewing a lot of rubber.

Jon

 

[ray_hennig]

I am coming to Tours (Mazieres) in September, so good to know there is a helpful dealer there.

This was in 1992. We were on our way down from Caen and MB (Trucks) in Alençon diagnosed the problem and found the part in, I think, Orleans. MB Tours had received the part by the time we arrived before lunch and we were on the road soon after 3. I hope the service would be as good 20 years later. Sadly, I fear the cars aren't.

And yes, kth286, any time. I am now in Paris, the car is in the Dordogne but I should be reunited with it soon.

Best to all.

R

 

[jonthetourist]

This was in 1992. We were on our way down from Caen and MB (Trucks) in Alençon diagnosed the problem and found the part in, I think, Orleans. MB Tours had received the part by the time we arrived before lunch and we were on the road soon after 3. I hope the service would be as good 20 years later. Sadly, I fear the cars aren't.

That's why I have a 22-year-old one

 

[jazzdude]

I went back to the mechanic, and we put it on the ramp and found that one of the cross bracing members (it is a cab) that go under the rear axle, was loose on one end.

We took each end off, greased them and tightened them up.

The creaking sound coming from the rear seems to have now gone and I was pleased to see that the cricket squeak had gone too.

But after driving it around for 20 minutes, just like yesterday the chirping started again in little bursts. I took it back again, and we tried spraying grease over the top and bottom coil spring mounts. The sound seems to have gone again, but the odd chirp pops up over the extreme bumps.

I can only assume that with the car going up on a hoist, the wheels dangling, alters the geometry, hence the sound quietening for a while. But the chirping sound eventually comes back, albeit not so loudly.

The mechanic is proposing to change the other two pairs of links on the rear wheels now. He does not think that the subframe mounts look tired nor does he think they would respond to being jacked up and then put down again.

These next pairs of links just adds to the cost and frankly, I will be most upset if this does not work.

 

[ray_hennig]

I went back to the mechanic, and we put it on the ramp and found that one of the cross bracing members (it is a cab) that go under the rear axle, was loose on one end.

We took each end off, greased them and tightened them up.

The creaking sound coming from the rear seems to have now gone and I was pleased to see that the cricket squeak had gone too.

But after driving it around for 20 minutes, just like yesterday the chirping started again in little bursts. I took it back again, and we tried spraying grease over the top and bottom coil spring mounts. The sound seems to have gone again, but the odd chirp pops up over the extreme bumps.

I can only assume that with the car going up on a hoist, the wheels dangling, alters the geometry, hence the sound quietening for a while. But the chirping sound eventually comes back, albeit not so loudly.

The mechanic is proposing to change the other two pairs of links on the rear wheels now. He does not think that the subframe mounts look tired nor does he think they would respond to being jacked up and then put down again.

These next pairs of links just adds to the cost and frankly, I will be most upset if this does not work.

I hope it will. I'm glad, too, that a halfshaft seems unlikely.

All the best and keep us posted.

R

 

[WDB124066]

One other thinng I noticed when replacing the rear springs - they do get a little weak over time and the coils will touch at the top especially where the ends are ground flat, the pads slip over this end so they may not get the full benefit of the oil you put there....??
I think there are spacers you can insert between coils to stop this or replace the springs.

To test rear bushes and subframe mounts; with foot on brake shift from forward to reverse at idle giving a tiny bit of throttle once the shift is complete, any movement fore or aft of the wheel in the wheel house means its time to replace some parts. If the front of the subframe drops in the forward gear this is a sign the subframe mounts are on the way out.

Hope this helps.

 

[grober]

OOPS should have noticed it was a cabriolet. Cabriolet bodies will inevitably twist more despite all that bracing. There is all the heavy roll over protection mechanism with bits that which might move about a bit , and there's that hood mechanism with all those little joints and hydraulic cylinders so I guess its to be expected the car might will creak / squeak a bit? Have you tried driving the car with all the hood up/down and headrest "tombstones " up/down combinations?