W124 Works - The w126 M119 Project

[Mercv8]

Well..

The post from Nav is of slight concern to me personally i must say.

My vehicle has been with Ian for nearly a Year i think. Well its been so long that ive forgotten when i left it there.

Anyway, i have at times felt that due to my patience my car has taken a back seater. Friends of mine cant understand why i havent put more pressure on Ian to get the work completed. But its not my style.

It went in for what was to be quite a straight forward engine transplant coming from a very special mechanic. Or so i was told anyway. I hope this will still prove to be the case.

Im sure Ian himself will confess that i have been hugely patient. In truth im not a patient person, but i have been with Ian due to his nature (and my own), i didnt want to put undue stress on him and wanted the project to be spot on and unrushed. However the stress of not realy knowing the state my vehicle is in, is starting to take its toll.

Im not someone who likes to come out publically concerning issues, and i have refrained myself for some considerable time, even longer then Nav i believe.

However, i just wanted to state that i did indeed give Malcolm permission to print the PMs between ourselves, and he has the interest of the members at heart, and has always given excellent advice. A credit to the forum imo.

Hopfully my car will be ready VERY soon and i can show what i would hope to be Excellent workmanship from Ian. If a w126 M119 Engine and gearbox transplant wont show off his true skills, then nothing will.

Anyway, this project is costing me alot of money, and even more time, so im hoping it will be worth it in the end. Good things come to those who wait right? Well im hoping so anyway!

I was always concerned the job may have been more then Ian wanted to take on, however he was always hugely confident it was going to be pretty straight forward and spot on once its complete. Im just hoping im not going to have similar experience that Nav has had.

I guess any problems will become pretty evident on the 260 Mile journey from Ians to my home when i eventually pick her up.

Watch this space.

MV8.

 

[KLP 92]

I believe the problem is that you guys choose a S Class M119 engine.

I spoke to yourself once before, and Ian on numerous occasions stating this would NOT be the simple drop in you 2 had planned.

The 1990-91 500SL has the correct CIS fuelling M119, which is a 1 day conversion. Its simple, drop in and a few hours of wiring.

The S Class engine is a LH controlled M119, so you have to retrofit the entire wiring loom from the S CLass, no longer a 1 day job, need additional 7 days for wiring.

One thing i've never liked to hear is midfiying sumps etc, which a read on a previous thread. The SL M119 engine fits straight in without any mods to the sump. Not sure if the sump is deeper on the W140 but instead of spending all those expensive hours in labour modifying, go to a breaker and buy an SL one

The amount of work you're doing, you could have plopped a V12 in there and made it truly stunning.

After all that you'll get 25bhp more than a 560 M117. Yes its more economical and a torque etc, but at what cost? If i put a M119 into the SEC, it will have to be an AMG version. I'll go to Germany and get an early generation 5.4 M119 350 BHP engine or the SL60 one. If you're going to do it you might as well do it properly.

I was going to do one on my SEC but couldn't source an SL engine. I had quotes to put the S Class engine in but then again it was £2k+ plus the cost of the donor car.

Hate to say but i did specifically warn the pair of you that this was no overnight project as i knew how this would potentially end up. This isn't the project to do if you're not experienced with these kind of swaps.

As for it taking a year so far......

 

[GRAV888]

Can I put my E55 engine into my 190E?

 

[KLP 92]

Can I put my E55 engine into my 190E?

Ofcourse you can

Never run though

 

[NW_Merc]

Seeing that we're talking about engine swaps and sorry if I temporarily hijack the thread, would it be easy to drop a 230K engine from a donor W202 preferably into mine? Or is it not as simple as plug and play?

 

[nick mercedes]

Seeing that we're talking about engine swaps and sorry if I temporarily hijack the thread, would it be easy to drop a 230K engine from a donor W202 preferably into mine? Or is it not as simple as plug and play?

Too much plugging and playing to be worthwhile...

Easier to just buy a C230K, there are plenty around.

I know it's not the modding spirit.

 

[NW_Merc]

Too much plugging and playing to be worthwhile...

Easier to just but a C230K, there are plenty around.

I know it's not the modding spirit.

Seems a more viable option, thanks for your opinion

 

[Brian WH]

I note from your PM, that Malcolm posted, that you had difficulty contacting Ian, thus you were unsure what the present position re-completion of your car is.

If that is still the case then surely the best option is to visit Ian's workshop personally and find out face to face what is happening and discuss any problems. Problems are difficult to resolve on the Forum and on the phone, but in person they become easier.

In the meantime I urge other members not to speculate about the delay, as this does not improve the situation one bit.

 

[Dieselman]

Will the 119 engine fit into a W126 without some serious modification to the crossmember due to the necessary shape of the oil sumps?

I found the comment about not being able to get in touch with Ian a bit strange as when you ring the 124Works landline, it gets answered in about 7 rings.

well, it did for me anyway..

If you've got concerns I would suggest you give Ian a ring to see how things are progressing and what and why there may be holdups.

This is a fairly major project which is fraught with technical issues. You ought to be in regular contact to keep abreast of developments, be they good or bad.

 

[jaymanek]

Will the 119 engine fit into a W126 without some serious modification to the crossmember due to the necessary shape of the oil sumps?

.

Nav and Talbir are the experts on this but I have seen a few done over in the states... the engine and box go straight in, just the wiring to sort..

As Nav says the early R129 one is the correct injection system which makes it a lot easier..

 

[KLP 92]

Will the 119 engine fit into a W126 without some serious modification to the crossmember due to the necessary shape of the oil sumps?

This is a fairly major project which is fraught with technical issues. You ought to be in regular contact to keep abreast of developments, be they good or bad.

No mods required to the sump, thats on an SL M119. If there are fitment issues then a M119 SL sump should have been sourced.

FItting is easy, minor alteration to the bulkhead required to clear the quad cam heads.

Not reallly a major project, engine is simple to fit in, wiring is the hardest. A week or so, maybe a couple at worse case.

 

[Mercv8]

Spoken to Ian. All is resolved at present so could this thread be locked.

Thanks.

 

[GrahamC230K]

If all is well, good. No need for locking I don't think. A thread can come to a rest without this.

 

[glojo]

My thanks to the poster is in respect of his speaking with Ian and hopefully getting this issue resolved. Jaw, jaw is always a better option than war, war. Sorry for contributing and hopefully this prroject will eventually have a happy ending. Talibar and KLP certainly know their engines and hopefully any advice might be appreciated.

Kind regards to everyone
John

 

[talbir]

Ok, M119 - same engine mounts, same gearbox mounts as w126. Half the hurdles that exist in an engine conversion overcome already.

If it's a w140 m119, good, no problem at all. You will need to change the oil sump and oil pump and transponder, using r129 SL or w124 500e specific components.

Other things to address :

- tailshaft on transmission needs to be swapped over, using the 3 spoke shaft from the w126....takes 1 miinute using a 30mm, 12 point socket

- tail housing plate on m119 gearbox needs to be swapped over, using the w126 gearbox plate instead

- radiator : will really need to be custom made or use one from an early SL 107, very tight in terms of fan clearance otherwise

- engine firewalls : need to be re-worked to accomodate the quad valve heads on the m119. Needs to be done using correct materials and insulation on any pipes passing near exhaust manifolds

- the exhaust downpipes form the w140 should fit like a glove

- battery will need to move to the boot, to accomodate the engine management system of 4 modules

However, the major challenge here is the LH fuel system wiring....if it's a w140 engine, it's not CIS-KE, which early r129's had.....that's easy wiring with one CIS module controlling the lot.

The LH needs 4 computers to manage the engine, plus a solution to the ASR signal required if the w126 recipient doesn't have ASR, otherwise no cruise and no ABS anymore.


The engine/gearbox and physical ancillary connections will likely take a week starting from scratch for anyone doing this first time/full time and properly. The wiring...can take a good month for the first timer. There are approximately 400 wires to deal with on the LH system.

I honestly don't see the point of so much time and effort to replace a Euro 560 engine unless the m117 is bad and needs replacement....guys in the States do this as their 560 engines only chuck out 240bhp, so moving to 326 bhp is quite an upgrade. But it's not worth it on the euro 560, especially as the m119 has LESS torque than the m117 560 ! (332 lb ft versus 335 !)

If you have a sweet running 560 engine, just fit the m119 gearbox and hook it up to the EZL and see the difference....torquier and lightning fast response on kickdown.

Change the diff from a 2.65 to a 2.82 or 3.07 and you'll knock a further 0.5 to 0.75 second of the 0-60 time.

An upgrade to the AMG 5.6 or 6.0 quad cam M117 is worth it as the power increase is substanial (360bhp and 385bhp respectively). Also it's what AMG stuck in the w126.

A v12 is what i'm doing as it makes sense, 418bhp from the V12 without cats is material power increase on the 560. But that's even more work - both wiring (6 computers and 800 wires) and physical fitment, starting with custom engine mounts.


talbir

 

[Mercv8]

Its not the 560 its the 500 version it would be replacing.

 

[jaymanek]

even if the power on paper is not much more, of course the M119 is a much more refined engine and power delivery is much smoother... It will still be well worth it if it all works out... hopefully with Talbirs pointers it shouldnt be too difficult with the aid of a welder and some electrical tape

 

[Mercv8]

Yeh i was once tempted by the V12 conversion, but engines seemed harder to come by.

Plus i aquired a full w140 500 with 70k for £300 so cant go wrong there.

Isnt the V12 unit quite abit heavier then the M119? Also i thought the M119 was more reliable?

 

[jaymanek]

oh yes, the V12 is a bit of an electrical nightmare, i wouldnt go near it for something like this..

 

[KLP 92]

even if the power on paper is not much more, of course the M119 is a much more refined engine and power delivery is much smoother...

Jay i would have to disagree, i think its the exact opposite!

V12 is smoother, more refined and the power delivery is alot better