W1244 idling problem...

charan_singh

Active Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
247
Guys,

has anyone come across this problem before....the car will be very rough on start up, then rough when put into any gear....and then idles erratically.

...and now it has begun to stall.

The car has been serviced, and it look as though the next step is throttle body?

or even the MAF?

Thanks
 

BillyW124

MB Enthusiast
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Oct 22, 2010
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2,892
Location
North West London
Car
W124 E320 coupe, W211 E320 V6 CDI, W211 E63 V8 AMG, R129 SL 280 V6, W215 CL 600 V12 Bi Turbo.
i think its an m111 e220 95
 

312 Sprinter

Active Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
592
Location
MK
Have a look whether there is an air leak. If the rubber hose over the top of the engine has not been put back properly it'll run like a dog as the airflow meter can't see the actual amount of air being drawn in.
 

jane_mk

New Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
11
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Car
W124 200E
Hi , I have similar problem,

I have W124 200E engine type 102 936 (M111) from 1995. I have (had) problem with throttle valve. Engine was not running smoothly when idle, reader increase and decrease all the time. Also, when engine was cold it was shutting down immediately by it self when my foot was off the gas paddle. Yesterday I open the throttle body clean the butterfly valve and put contact spray on the electric sliding contact on the butterfly shaft, put silicon seal and tune precisely valve opening for idling position on around 700-800 rotation per minute and close the throttle body. When I start engine (it was still worm) it was running Very smoothly, like never before (I have it 1 year). Today was even better; probably reaction from contact spry was still going on during the night. But when engine is cold I still have problem because is shutting down when I’m not pressing the gas paddle. This is like 3-5 min and after that time the engine is running nice. So I suspect two things to be possible problem.
First, Air Temperature Sensor, there is very big possibility that sensor is not working; (because I broke it) I was cleaning it, and since is bi-metal type (or it was broken before, because wires were split) probably I change the distance between contacts.
Second, failure in the insulation of the wires that come out from throttle body (like problem on this post here (http://www.motor-talk.de/.../...ine-drosselklappe-spinnt-t3018832.html) because I have the same throttle valve.
Probably there is probability to be problem with the electro-motor in the throttle body, or in the gasoline valve for the cold start, purge valve, vacuum pipes etc. (last two I cheek visually and purge valve also by shaking it and blowing/sucking in it, but not in details).
I will appreciate if some one can explain me how Air Temperature Sensor can be check it, and how much it can influence the steadiness of the running of cold engine (since I read that by reading the temperature of the air computer can estimate the content of the oxygen (O2) in the air and use this information in regulating butterfly valve opening when engine is running cold). I suggest that since I change the distance between the two wires in the sensor now the computer receive falls information and can't open the valve as needed.
If this is not a case how to check if there is problem in the insulation of the wires coming out from throttle body (I can use Ohm-matter, but I don’t know is there should be a contact between some wires or there should not be any contact between wires). Also in this picture ( http://www.motor-talk.de/.../belegung-i203676665.html ) on the left side (after "H" and "A") there are two wires without explanation how to reconnect, since this is DC electricity changing the polarity means changing the direction of the electro-motor which will lead in closing instead of opening the butterfly valve.
Sorry for so long post.
I hope that some one can help me
all best from Macedonia
Jane
 

jane_mk

New Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
11
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Car
W124 200E
Similar problem, may be it can help you

Hi , I have similar problem,

I post this post on one German forum but still no answer, any how maybe it can help you. I hope that some one can give as more info.

I have W124 200E engine type 102 936 (M111) from 1995. I have (had) problem with throttle valve. Engine was not running smoothly when idle, reader increase and decrease all the time. Also, when engine was cold it was shutting down immediately by it self when my foot was off the gas paddle. Yesterday I open the throttle body clean the butterfly valve and put contact spray on the electric sliding contact on the butterfly shaft, put silicon seal and tune precisely valve opening for idling position on around 700-800 rotation per minute and close the throttle body. When I start engine (it was still worm) it was running Very smoothly, like never before (I have it 1 year). Today was even better; probably reaction from contact spry was still going on during the night. But when engine is cold I still have problem because is shutting down when I’m not pressing the gas paddle. This is like 3-5 min and after that time the engine is running nice. So I suspect two things to be possible problem.
First, Air Temperature Sensor, there is very big possibility that sensor is not working; (because I broke it) I was cleaning it, and since is bi-metal type (or it was broken before, because wires were split) probably I change the distance between contacts.
Second, failure in the insulation of the wires that come out from throttle body (like problem on this post here (http://www.motor-talk.de/.../...ine-drosselklappe-spinnt-t3018832.html) because I have the same throttle valve.
Probably there is probability to be problem with the electro-motor in the throttle body, or in the gasoline valve for the cold start, purge valve, vacuum pipes etc. (last two I cheek visually and purge valve also by shaking it and blowing/sucking in it, but not in details).
I will appreciate if some one can explain me how Air Temperature Sensor can be check it, and how much it can influence the steadiness of the running of cold engine (since I read that by reading the temperature of the air computer can estimate the content of the oxygen (O2) in the air and use this information in regulating butterfly valve opening when engine is running cold). I suggest that since I change the distance between the two wires in the sensor now the computer receive falls information and can't open the valve as needed.
If this is not a case how to check if there is problem in the insulation of the wires coming out from throttle body (I can use Ohm-matter, but I don’t know is there should be a contact between some wires or there should not be any contact between wires). Also in this picture ( http://www.motor-talk.de/.../belegung-i203676665.html ) on the left side (after "H" and "A") there are two wires without explanation how to reconnect, since this is DC electricity changing the polarity means changing the direction of the electro-motor which will lead in closing instead of opening the butterfly valve.
Sorry for so long post.
I hope that some one can help me
all best from Macedonia
Jane
 

jane_mk

New Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
11
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Car
W124 200E
Some update
I test the Mas Air Flow sensor last night, it give strange readings.
I use hair drier to blow in the sensor while it was connected to the Ohm meter. The readings were not constant. I notice sharp change in the value with no obvious reason (no change in the direction of the hair drier). After that I tested it on the car after I warmed up the sensor while engine was cold, I notice some difference, car was idling (before was shooting down instantly after i take foot of the pedal) but for about 10 seconds, becoming worst after every second past. I'm thinking that warm sensor gives better reading and as was cooling the readings becoming inappropriate that lead to engine shut down.
One mechanic promise me that he will try to find sensor (from other car) just to test it so I'll cheek with him today and if I do something I'll update you
 

kth286

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Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
2,923
Location
Caversham Berks
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E320 Coupe
to both of you.

How do your cars drive without the MAF connected (take the plug off).

If they drive better, then the MAF is likely problem OR the wire to the MAF is the problem, as on these cars the wire to the MAF suffers from insulation degradation and the wires short together.

The sensor for air temp will have very very little impact on performance, and should be ignored at this stage.
 

bh13coupe

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Jul 2, 2008
Messages
830
Location
poole dorset
Car
124 coupe
on my M104 I had the throttle body cleaned to ensure it would seal when on idle also my vacuum line was replaced. this solved my lumpy idle issues.
 
OP
OP
C

charan_singh

Active Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
247
thanks guys. KTH, no idea how to do this. This car is beginning to p1ss me off.
 

jane_mk

New Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
11
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Car
W124 200E
@KTH
I disconnect the MAF and run the engine and didn't notice any difference with or without it. Also when I get the car I notice that original cable from MAF was cut of and reconected by hand and the plastic holders of MAF were broken. I asume that the problem is in MAF, but I want to be sure before buying new one. I can notice difference in the working of the engine when cold start setup is turn off after reaching working temperature. That make me thinking that the problem is not in the throttle but in the MAF.
@ charan - Mas Air Flow sensor is locate between air filter and the throttle valve, it is locate on the black plastic pipe going over the engine. Just locate robber pipe coming up from the engine and entering the plastic air tube from the air filter (it is Very easy to spotted), the MAF is on the other side of the pipe, it is small black cylinder sticking out from the pipe with wires connected to it. If you stand in front of you car and lean forward you will touch the pipe with you nose ;) KTH suggest just to unplag the sensor and start the engine to make the comparison for ruining with or without it.
@BH13 - I already clean the throttle body and check the vacuum pipe (visually), after cleaning it there is noticeable difference.Thx for advice.
 

jane_mk

New Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
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Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Car
W124 200E
Also KTH
You suggest to check the insulation of the wires that connects the MAF? - I'll check it.
Like i mention, somebody already was checking there but it is possible that he mess up the wires when he connected them by hand ??!! How to know if he right re-connected the MAF?
 

kth286

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Messages
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Location
Caversham Berks
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E320 Coupe
Also KTH
You suggest to check the insulation of the wires that connects the MAF? - I'll check it.
Like i mention, somebody already was checking there but it is possible that he mess up the wires when he connected them by hand ??!! How to know if he right re-connected the MAF?

Colours of the wires.

If you replace MAF, do not buy complete MAF from Mercedes but buy insert only, from Bosch.
 

jane_mk

New Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
11
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Car
W124 200E
I think that bout wires were black but I'll check for the colors again. Shult one of wires to be under the charge (12V), one which brings electricity to MAF?
I already spoke to one (new) parts dealer and they can optain the MAF (only the sensor, insert) but they need to order it. Thanks for advice!
What is your opinion, it is possible that the problem can be only from MAF, dose the MAF have so big influence on steady idling when engine is cold ?
 

jane_mk

New Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
11
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Car
W124 200E
Hi,
Is this a vacuum pump or purge valve???
There is something like metal ball inside and retell when shaken
I was cheeking the vacuum pipes when i notice that there is no difference in the work of the engine with or with out this part, I put WD40 in it and it start retelling better but still no difference, I cheek the power supply going in and there was only 4.5v, is this normal or ?
 

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kth286

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E320 Coupe
It's not the purge valve.

where was that ?

the purge valve has the word MOT on top of it - on inner wing
 

jane_mk

New Member
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Aug 11, 2011
Messages
11
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Car
W124 200E
This was under the computer unit on the inner wing form the driver side, two pipes (like those for the vacuum) were atached to it
 

balge

Active Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
827
Location
Central England
Car
Mercedes-Benz W124
Hi
comes up as 'fuel regeneration valve' or 'REGENERIERVENTIL' in German, no idea what it is though, sorry

cheers!
 

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