W201 engine conversion

[Martyn1993]

Hi there from Scotland, Im a lifelong Merc enthusiast but a bit of a noob on this site. Currently drive a D Turbo Peugeot 206 and a Classic Mini 1275. Always wanted a Merc and definitely considering it for the near future so need a few tips, here's what im looking for. Would love a 190E 2.5 16valver..who wouldnt, but due to being 19 atm (20 by the time it comes to purchasing a Benz) and having a 60mile round trip for work it just wouldn't be very clever to buy one. I am still on the hunt for a 190 however, and would like to have a good combination of performance and economy. Ive heard all the stories concerning the Diesel 190s, being very terrible when the right foot is applied and same goes for the 1.8 and 2.0 petrol. My question is what is a sensible engine swap to give me the performance/economy? Im up for a challenge (no job is impossible in my mind) but would prefer to stay away from 220 CDIs etc due to all the electronic magic that goes on within them. Other plans include full Cosworth body kit/interior and a set of Lorinser RS 90s Any tips would be very much appreciated.
Martyn

 

[carat 3.6]

Welcome to the forum.

Would you prefer petrol or diesel?

 

[Stratman]

Welcome aboard.

MBs are heavy, even the small ones. There's a reason the doors go 'clunk' and not 'twang'. As a result you won't get both performance and economy, especially with the older technology engines and transmissions.

Why not go for the W201's (the 190) replacement, the W202 C Class? There's a decent range of engines including supercharged ones which can be economical if you're sensible, but still give you a shove in the back when you want to play.

 

[Martyn1993]

Thanks Carat, Mercedes diesels are amazingly reliable so would probably go towards one of them. C250 TD, or a 190 2.6 with a OM606 conversion perhaps. Stratman thanks for the reply, I know what you mean concerning the weight issue. A W202 is tempting, always had a soft spot for them when done properly, what are they like for reliability? And how much of an issue is rust on them? Been looking at a few C230 Kompressors but again this could put a slight dent in my wallet with the fuel, then again...you only live once

 

[carat 3.6]

A donor c250td would be your best bet, there is a bit more involved with the om606 than you might think.

 

[Martyn1993]

Ive looked at a few OM606 projects and it is a fairly big job, but like I said im always up for a challenge. But like you said the 250TD would be a tad more sensible though, keeps the insurance costs/fuel down a bit. Always liked the W124 CE aswell so another options is save up hard for a serious 190 (M104 24v ) and in the mean time get a 124. As you can probably tell im very old school when it comes to Mercs, don't build 'em like they used to!

 

[Martyn1993]

Very much liking this 124 for sale 1995 MERCEDES E220 COUPE AUTO, LOW MILES, FSH, 6 MONTHS TAX, MOT OCT, STUNNING!! | eBay

 

[neilz]

Martyn - learn from me. DON'T go for a cheap W124 coupe. Look at my early threads and see what can go wrong. £1800 or so bought me a 1995 E220 coupe and though prices have plummeted on these in the past year or two I would still want to go for one of the more expensive ones around (why? see http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/general-discussion/129223-w124-buyer-check-list-3.html#post1478722 post #33 and #35)

Save up and get one that costs a bit more. When they rust, boy do they rust - in fact, they rust like nothing you've seen before (W210s aside...!).

Knowing you like the 190s, the 190D is not a bad car - ok, a bit slow but the manuals are a bit quicker. I would rather go for a W201 than a W124 but regardless which you look at make sure you give it a going over. Rust isn't just cosmetic - in the right areas it can be an expensive MOT failure. Also if going for a late W124 coupe (1993/4 onwards facelift especially) check that the biodegradable wiring loom insulation hasn't degraded (or has been replaced) and make sure the head gasket is fine (expensive repair)

The most reliable diesels come from the W123 range - famously the OM617 engine (200D - so (dangerously) slow they never made it to the UK, 240D (usable around town) and 300D (not bad really)) but they might be too classic in design and they are quite hard to find for sale because nobody really wants to sell theirs and all the cheap rusted ones are either exported to Africa or broken for parts by now

 

[Martyn1993]

Thanks for the info Neilz. I will take this into consideration, my dad had a couple of W124s in the past and I remember (from an early age) him having to change a wing or 2 on them due to the rust, he now owns a W210 estate and having the same problem all over again. Will take your advice and spend the extra cash. 190 is definitely the Merc I have the hankering for, and will look further into a C250TD conversion as the OM617 sounds very scarce. Have you had any experience with the OM605 engine at all? Btw love your W140, fantastic cars.

 

[neilz]

Thanks - having owned Bentleys, an Aston etc (those were the days, things changed a bit since...) I can safely say my 140 is the most comfortable car I have ever owned or been in by a long way. Fuel consumption is plummeting - apparently the fuel pump is on its way out, otherwise an incredible car (won't say how much but that I got it for much less than the C124 you linked to because it came up for sale by the garage I'm a good customer with).

Funnily enough, my son's planning on getting a W123 300D as his first car purely because of their reliability and the fact many apparently go over 1 million miles. If by any chance you come across an old crumbling 300GD they have the OM617 engine in them and you can try doing a bit of a swap into a W201 though any G Wagen seems to be going for quite a bit now, roadworthy or not

Your dad's been a bit unlucky with choices - the two worst affected Mercs for rust as far as I know (the 123 almost as bad)!

 

[Martyn1993]

A mate of mine had a 140 320 for a while and he was also very impressed with it....right up until his ECU packed in. Sounds like you got an excellent deal though, how much are Merc charging for a pump on them? Sounds like your son has good taste, but what is insurance like on the 300D engines being a large capacity? Funny you should mention that, I have been looking at G Wagens alot recently, don't think ive ever found a well priced one but will keep an eye out for an OM617.
He has indeed been unlucky but looking to get the bodywork sorted soon, mechanically it is superb. He is on the look out for a C126 SEC with the possible idea of doing an engine conversion to that, with todays fuel prices a 420 V8 wouldn't be very good.
Thanks for all the advice though, need to get something in place soon!

 

[carat 3.6]

Another option for you, is to find an early sprinter van with the 2.9td 5 cyl om602 engine. That conversion would be fairly easy to do.

 

[neilz]

I am getting the pump for under £300 reconditioned from Karl (w140.co.uk) and am assuming a second has also failed (I'll see what faults this one takes care of first). Want to know my current mpg? Ignore my signature, I never get round to filling in data on fuelly so that is old data. 12mpg!

The 300D has a 3l engine but poor acceleration, doesn't exactly attract the boy racer type and isn't worth too much. A 240d might be better for insurance, we'll see what comes along.

Have you considered running your 190 on vegetable oil? On older diesel engines (not cdi) it apparently works well but the fuel filter needs frequent replacing

 

[219]

The standard 190E is not that bad for fuel economy , I ran one ( 2 litre automatic ) for a couple of years and always got around 30 mpg without trying to drive economically , this being a mixture of town driving and fast open road driving . I wrote on the 190 forum ( Mercedes-190.co.uk ) at the time about my trip to Wales and back ( 1000 miles at motorway speed limit , returning with boot full of car parts , three doors where the back seat -removed for the trip- should have been , and a fourth door on the roof rack ) consumption calculated by starting out with a brimmed tank and doing the same at each refill , a little over two tanks full and 38 mpg - not bad for the M102 with autobox . Then again , people express surprise that I can get 25 mpg out of my 500SEL on a run and generally better than 20 in normal driving - it just comes down to maintenance : a well looked after car will always do better than a neglected one .

I have no experience of the Diesel 190's ( although have just bought a W124 E250D , my first Diesel car , on which I shall be reporting in due course ) but would expect better fuel economy if lower performance than the petrol versions .

I had a 190E 2.6 a few years ago and , while it certainly rips along the road , it is a little thirstier than the two litre , averaging somewhere in the high twenties , but one of the nicest cars I've had .

One thought is that , at your age , any modified car is going to cost so much to insure that any savings in fuel economy are likely to be wiped out by increased insurance - why not buy a standard 190 and see how you get on with it ? A standard car will be easier to sell on and probably worth more later than a modified one anyway .

 

[stwat]

Welcome aboard.

MBs are heavy, even the small ones.

Not really true. Many people seem to think the 190 is a big heavy car when infact it is a very compact vehicle and only weighs around 1200kg give or take for trim and options etc. So compared to small cars these days, they are lightweight.

 

[ss201]

If you're looking for performance AND economy from a 190, then you've picked the wrong car. I've owned lots of them, 1.8, 2.0, 2.6, 2.5-16 valve petrols and a 2.5 diesel. The only way I've found is to have a 2.6 converted to LPG, but then that's going to cost you for the conversion.

Apart from the 16-valve, they were never designed for performance. They're built for safe, comfortable cruising - and require a whole different approach to driving. If you really must have a 190, buy a carefully maintained 190E 2.0 petrol. If you like the experience, keep it and don't thrash it. It won't thank you if you do. If you don't like it, sell it on and get your money back, which you will as depreciation is virtually nil. At 19, the cost of your insurance will be double what you pay for the car, if not more.

Don't be disheartened by this. They are fantastic cars! Neilr currently has a 2.6 Sportline for sale on here that looks to be a steal at £1000. I shudder to think what your insurance would be, though.

 

[grober]

190 2 LITRE injection auto- stay away from the diesels = huge reliability but zero performance [ pre turbo era]---- there used to be turbo kits to "tickle them up" from a company in Scandinavia- but no long available. If you want economy/low running costs from a petrol get a good LPG conversion. A 190 petrol will easily hold its own on the motorway with present day speed limits. There's a " sweet spot" in age - Earlier cars had better paint- solvent based the last ones were water based BUT you need to get the duplex timing chain engine [ check thro the oil filler cap on the cam cover] post 89ish as the single chain engines tended to wear the chain out in 78/80K miles.

 

[neilz]

If you don't mind not accelerating like a V8 then diesel should be fine, but if you've been talked out of it by now then neilrr's 190E is just £950 now: http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/clas...uto-sportline-chassis-1100-a.html#post1490577

 

[Mr B.]

get your self a nice c class mate you be fine

 

[neilz]

Warning if you do - ECU failure on the W202 C200 (oldest pre-facelift) is common at ~75000 miles. It's not just Honest John's site saying that - my 72000 mile 1994 one had its ECU suddenly go and boy could you feel the difference - stuck in gear 1 (2 if lucky) and sounded like a tractor. The W202 is quite unrefined inside and feels cheaper than the 124. It's not bad, just doesn't feel as much the classic Benz as a 190D/E (which is an iconic car)