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W201 engine conversion

Thanks for all the advice guys, good to get some opinions on the standard 190. Performance and economy is difficult to get, but my plan now is to maybe wait until i can get classic insurance and keep a merc as a toy (can forget about economy more). I've had a quote on a 2.3-16 190 for about £900 per year at 19 in my name so insurance shouldn't be a problem by the time I come to buying a merc. A standard one is tempting, but As much as I love original w123/126 etc Im daft on Motorsport spec 190s and such like. Plus im a very keen driver and always wanted to build a fun track/ fast road car. Dont worry i never thrash cars beyond their capabilities, lots of mechnical sympathy. So plan is to hang off a while, get more money in the bank and sell my mini (worth plenty as its mint condition) once I've finished exhibiting it this years shows then find a 190 worth doing. I also agree with Neilz concerning the w202, known a few owners who have had bother with them. I understand that the w201s were never built as serious performers, but it can be done. (anythings possible if you put your mind to it) Thanks again for all the advice though guys, good to chat with genuine enthusiasts like myself will let you's know what I buy in the near future :)
 
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Also just to add even though I got a quote on a 2.3-16 I will not be purchasing one due to the single timing chain along with some other issues they had
 
Thanks for the link Druk, very interesting project and im looking into it further. Like I said before I might wait until I can get classic insurance, will make things alot easier. A really like the idea of the M104 3.2 conversion, but the OM606 is definitely a good alternative. I work in a machine shop, so modifications and fabrication required shouldn't be a problem. :)
 
Martyn1993 said:
Also just to add even though I got a quote on a 2.3-16 I will not be purchasing one due to the single timing chain along with some other issues they had
Click to expand...

The simplex timing chain is nothing to worry about as long as the car is or has been properly maintained. The main failure point is the chain tensioner. The early ones tended to seize causing the chain to snap. This was rectified with a much better designed tensioner which can be retro fitted. My 2.3-16 had over 166.000 miles on the clock when I sold it and it ran beautifully.

The 2.3-16;s are real screamers compared to the more laid back nature of the 2.5-16. Both more or less identical performance wise but deliver their power in different ways. The 2.3 is a more over square short stroke engine meaning it revs up much quicker and delivers more of its power at the upper limits of the rev range. They just beg to be revved hard and reward you massively when done so.
The 2.5's are a bit more civilised having the heavier duplex chain. Still screamers but not quite as yobish as the 2.3's.

It's worth noting that Mercedes went back to the single chain set up on the EVO models.
 
The 2.6 also has a single row chain so if that's a deal breaker for you then I think you'll be restricted to an M102 four cylinder or the 16v 2.5.
 
Rob it isn't entirely a deal breaker just heard many horror stories concerning the 2.3. I wasn't aware they redesigned the tensioner :) is there any other reliability issues with the 16v cars? And what mpg can you get from them? Heard of people getting low 20s or are they capable of better? Thanks for all the info Stwat, you definitely know your stuff, did you use your 2.3 as a daily runner?
 
Yes my 2.3-16 was my daily drive. I could get 30+ mpg on a long run, probably 25+ around town. Obviously that would come right down when having fun:D

The design of the cosworth head is so efficient and free flowing meaning it is one of the most fuel efficient out of the 190 range, barring the derv versions.

I have owned 2.0e, 2.6e and 2.3-16 and the valver was the best on fuel without a doubt.

There are no real reliability issues with the 16 valve engines. The one thing to note is that they have solid lifters not hydraulic. So they periodically need the gaps checking and setting by using shims to bring them back to spec. There are many out there running with incorrect gaps which affects performance and fuel consumption.

A correctly set up 16V engine is a joy to drive.
 
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Thanks stwat that sounds quality. Ive always shied away at the 16v over concerns of high maintenance, expensive to run and own etc. Also my dad is telling me I should just go for a 2.0 or a diesel...which is great right up until I get overtaken by a 16v. Always wanted one so why not, might buy a cheap run around and see about getting a 16v as a toy ;)
 
Just like you I was always scared away from owning one due to the stories I had heard. Stories most likely from people who had never actually owned one in their lives !! Once I bought mine I realised they had been talking out of their ****s and wondered what I had been worried about all these years.

The main thing to look out for is rust, rust and more importantly, rust !! They can hide the tinworm very well beneath the body kit. Rear arches can rott through due to the arch extensions as can the fronts, but not to such an extent. MB in their wisdom, drilled and bolted the arches through the wings:wallbash:
Also the sils can rot under the kit, especially around the jacking points. That goes for all 190's. as does rot below the rear screen so have a good look under there by opening the boot and shining a torch up there.

There is a very good 190 buyers guide on the 190 forum linked to in my sig.

Stu
 
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Yeah I think if I was going to buy a 190 16v, Id save hard and buy a solid one with minimal work being required. Bloody hell, what possessed MB to do that :doh: My mate had a 2.5-16 and he loved it, but he has told me about the expenses of owning one. But from the way you have described, sounds like its just like any classic car. Well maintained and looked after and it can be very useable. I drive a classic Mini which I have rebuilt twice so very used to the rust issue :L I'll have a wee look at the buyers guide, cheers :) Very keen on getting one now, but will have to wait atleast I year me thinks (due to my amazingly s*** apprentice wage :mad: )
Cheers Stu :thumb:
 
I have read through this thread with interest and have the following comments:-

1 Any car this old will probably need things doing to it and unless you are very lucky or astute then you will pay for the priviledge of owning an older car. All cars need looking after and it's the owners before you where the problems lie.
2 I don't think a 190d is going to satisfy the OP's need for a bit of oomph.
3 For the 190's only the 2.6e, the 2.3-16 or the 2.5-16 are likely to be satisfactory.
4 The w202 c280 and c230k should also be considered preferably late model facelifts V, W or X registration.
3 Be prepared for a long search for a good example and budget for putting right the neglect of previous owners.
 
Dittrich, thanks for your comments. I agree, mint 16Vs are very expensive so im willing to put things right with a slightly cheaper example, obviously aslong as the issues arent too expensive. The fast 190 Diesels that are fast have had alot of work put into them, expensive turbos/injectors etc so your right in saying they really aren't sensible when looking for a performance Merc. W202s are a good idea, just not sure if the build quality is up to much when compared to other models. Like ive said in previous comments, buying a Merc will be a while off yet as I want to do it properly, not buying any old one that pops up. Just want to get some ideas and extend my Merc knowledge. Just out of curiosity, what is your C230K like for reliability and economy?
Cheers
 
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Martyn1993 said:
Dittrich, thanks for your comments. I agree, mint 16Vs are very expensive so im willing to put things right with a slightly cheaper example, obviously aslong as the issues arent too expensive. The fast 190 Diesels that are fast have had alot of work put into them, expensive turbos/injectors etc so your right in saying they really aren't sensible when looking for a performance Merc. W202s are a good idea, just not sure if the build quality is up to much when compared to other models. Like ive said in previous comments, buying a Merc will be a while off yet as I want to do it properly, not buying any old one that pops up. Just want to get some ideas and extend my Merc knowledge. Just out of curiosity, what is your C230K like for reliability and economy?
Cheers
Click to expand...

The only thing expensive that I have bought for it was a new ABS pump thing which I bought from an MB dealership who fitted it. The bill was around £1k including some other things from memory. However, after 13 years it now needs to go into the workshop for rust removal and a respray £4k. It has travelled 170k miles and been to alot of places outside the UK. It has only ever failed to start when the battery needed replacing. Many years ago, an improperly refitted bearing cap caused a bearing failure but this was the mechanics not the car itself. But the most important aspect of this car is the nature of the 2.3 litre engine and the kompressor. The engine only has 4 cylinders and they are not particularly refined at high revs. However, I can honestly say it has enough power and oomph for me. The kompressor kicks in around 1,800rpm. Nice whooshing sound. Putting your foot in the carpet invokes kickdown by 1 or 2 gears and if you get it right, the engine spins up to 4,000rpm+ (1.5 seconds) and the next time you look at the dashboard, it's probably reading 80mph+. I make a point of doing this on a regular basis as cars are to be enjoyed. Alternatively, after a motorway stop, pootle into the exit lane, momentarily stop, then floor the accelerator. Watch the needle go all the way to 5,500rpm before it changes up. I wouldn't have the confidence to drive like this in a manual and the 5 speed automatic allows me the luxury of getting the changes right every time. Before you decide, I think you need to drive all the cars you are interested in. It my change your ideas.
The only other thing I would say I was not aware of when I bought it was the cost of lower profile tires. A good set of continentals for my car would be of the order of £600 these days.
 
A lovely example , and probably a fair reflection of what these cars would cost if made nowadays . A lot of money though .
 
Seen that 2.3 on ebay. Absolutely superb. Only problem is, whoever buys it wont use it properly :( It will be locked away in a garage or a museum, some hero needs to buy it and get some mud under those arches!
 
Quickquid? Wonga.com? You may well end up repaying one of those loans to the value of Scotland's GDP :D but wouldn't it be worth it to rescue it?
 
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