W202 ICE advice needed

[Joe_SP]

Hi all

I have installed an Alpine CDA-9853R HU, Pioneer Custom fit door speakers/Tweeters, Rainbow KX100 rear door speakers and some Mac Audio 17 CM subs in the rear shelf. Overall I am happy withe the clarity of the system but the bass distorts badly.

I have used I-personalise to make sure that the speakers are only getting the correct frequencys which has improved things a lot but there is room for improvement.

I have been thinking about the following and would appreciate your thoughts and feedback.

1, If I fit some Dynamat xtreme in the doors will that help reduce distortion?

2, I have an alpine MRP-T30 (2x50 watt RMS) amp in the garage. Is it worth installing this to power either the front speakers or the subs?

3, If the Alpine amp is not powerfull enough for the subs, what sort of output amp should I look for? The Mac Audio subs are only rated at 130 watts.

Many thanks

Joe

 

[Chattonmill]

Are the subs currently being power by a seperate amp, if not they probably need to be.
Are the speakers connected properly? Try changing the polarity on one side(Not both) and see if that changes the sound quality.
If you need a dedicated sub amp I have one that is sitting around doing nothing and can be yours for very little!

 

[bigbobs cl]

17cm subs are a waste of space, sorry! If you want to get any decent bass from a sum then the minimum is 8" and thats pushing it. 10`s or 12`s are the only way to get decent bass unless you spend some serious money on front door speakers such as Rockford or Genesis in which case you will get top quality and a fair bit of bass.

Bob

 

[gIzzE]

What model sub is it??

Are they mounted properly?? To have a sub in a parecl shelf it has the cabin has to be completely air tight compared with the boot, otherwise the speaker will flap about (distort).

If they are subs, the need an amp, if they are just 6.5" midranges they should be alright off the head unit, but only for fill, not to give you deep bass.

They will only do around 45hz and up.

 

[Joe_SP]

Are the subs currently being power by a seperate amp, if not they probably need to be.
Are the speakers connected properly? Try changing the polarity on one side(Not both) and see if that changes the sound quality.
If you need a dedicated sub amp I have one that is sitting around doing nothing and can be yours for very little!

The Subs are powered purely by the HU - no seperate amp at the moment. Tell me more about your amp...

The door speakers should be connected properly as I have used the wiring looms that come with the speaker adaptors.

 

[Joe_SP]

What model sub is it??

Are they mounted properly?? To have a sub in a parecl shelf it has the cabin has to be completely air tight compared with the boot, otherwise the speaker will flap about (distort).

If they are subs, the need an amp, if they are just 6.5" midranges they should be alright off the head unit, but only for fill, not to give you deep bass.

They will only do around 45hz and up.

I am not really looking for big bass so I am reluctant to go down the bass box in the boot route. The subs are solidly mounted - would dynamat help here?

I have set the front door speakers up to recieve above 50 hz and the rear doors above 100 hz and the sub up to 200hz.

 

[Alps]

subs may be solidly mounted but will vibrate on the metal shelf, together with all the interior panel parts that are also attached.

subs, i would always put on a seperate amp, as when any low freq notes kick in, they will demand more power from the amp. If you are using a single amp for the lot, this will lead to distorted performance from your mids and tweeters. Wheather you like big bass or not, the cleanest bass is produced from an enclosure, you can mount 8" subs on a shelf with MDF, and make an elcosure around it (the bose speakers have a plastic enclosure to mimik this.) but far the easiest option is to stick a sub in the boot.

 

[gIzzE]

I am not really looking for big bass so I am reluctant to go down the bass box in the boot route. The subs are solidly mounted - would dynamat help here?

I have set the front door speakers up to recieve above 50 hz and the rear doors above 100 hz and the sub up to 200hz.

Not sure on the Dynamat, depends why they are distorting?

I need to know what speaker it is to work out what the problem is.

 

[Joe_SP]

I am beginning to think you may all be right about a box in the boot. With this option how does the bass travel into the car - through the holes that used to be ocupired by speakers in the shelf?

What about the dynamat in the doors - worth it?

 

[Chattonmill]

The Subs are powered purely by the HU - no seperate amp at the moment. Tell me more about your amp...

The door speakers should be connected properly as I have used the wiring looms that come with the speaker adaptors.

The Amp is a Radio Mobile RA280 which I used to power a Kicker KS80 subwoofer box. is has low pass filters and was more than enough power to deal with the bass.

I also have an alpine MRV F300 amp, which would do the job nicely,
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t45885.html
You could have the whole lot for £60 (Including the Kicker)and see which suited best!

They are quite old, but when it comes to bass a newer amp would not necessarily give any better sound.

 

[Crazyjester900]

1. subs have to be powered by their own AMP, i have two 12" 800Watt subs powered by a "Monoblock amp". I think it is important that they have their own sub. my other speakers are just powered from the head unit and they work fine

also make sure your car speakers have the bass turned to 1 or 2 so that they are only putting out treble cause they can cause a lot of distortion

 

[ROBB]

I have set the front door speakers up to recieve above 50 hz and the rear doors above 100 hz and the sub up to 200hz.

should that not be the other way round??
Subs usually upto 50hz, mid bass (rears) 100+, and front (mid/bass + tweeter) 200hz (via a crossover) ??

rob

 

[Joe_SP]

Not sure on the Dynamat, depends why they are distorting?

I need to know what speaker it is to work out what the problem is.

In the front I have the Pioneer 76T (TS-H2AT) Custom fit speakers - the ones with the nice tweeter enclosures on the dash. They are quite an old design now but the Tweeters look great.....

 

[gIzzE]

In the front I have the Pioneer 76T (TS-H2AT) Custom fit speakers - the ones with the nice tweeter enclosures on the dash. They are quite an old design now but the Tweeters look great.....

I mean the rear speakers, the ones that are causing the problems.

Need to know what model it is and will be able to give you some pointers.


It may be to get them to play at a level you can hear them properly you are distorting them, it may be that they need a proper shelf building, it may be the crossovers need tweaking, it could be a whole load of things.

 

[Joe_SP]

should that not be the other way round??
Subs usually upto 50hz, mid bass (rears) 100+, and front (mid/bass + tweeter) 200hz (via a crossover) ??

rob

I am really showing my ignorance here

Is bass high frequency or low?

 

[Joe_SP]

I mean the rear speakers, the ones that are causing the problems.

Need to know what model it is and will be able to give you some pointers.


It may be to get them to play at a level you can hear them properly you are distorting them, it may be that they need a proper shelf building, it may be the crossovers need tweaking, it could be a whole load of things.

The problems with the rear is that I cant really here anything through them, it is the front doors that distort.

The rear shelf are MAC MOBIL - I don't know the exact model - sorry.

 

[gIzzE]

In that case the install is crap, simple as that really.

How have you mounted them??

Did you use MDF rings or those rubbish plastic adpaters???

 

[Joe_SP]

In that case the install is crap, simple as that really.

How have you mounted them??

Did you use MDF rings or those rubbish plastic adpaters???

The rubbish plastic things.......

Can I buy the MDF rings or do I have to make them?

 

[Alps]

The rubbish plastic things.......

Can I buy the MDF rings or do I have to make them?

on the 202 shelf even mdf rings will not provide enuf support, you may need to fabricate a mdf shelf.

i still say, seperate amp and a single sub in an eclosure, remove the rear ones you have and the holes will act as a port into the cabin to allow the bass in.

if you still want rear speakers, then use the rear doors.

 

[Joe_SP]

Thanks for all your input.

Is looks to me like I need to do the following.

1, Mount the speakers in the front doors in MDF.

2, Remove the rear speakers and fit a box in the boot. How about these?

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/1538.html
http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/3650.html