W203 CDI220 2006 - Revs Flaring

ChrisU

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Dec 6, 2014
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9
Car
Mercedes C220 CDI W203 2006
Hi,

Hoping to get some advice and info before I go with the indie suggested option of reconditioning the gearbox.

I have a 2006 CDI220 that I bought just a few weeks back. All seemed well until I drove it on the first cold morning and here is what then happens:

Happens only when the engine is COMPLETELY cold (first 10 mins of driving. Will not happen again until rested for 4-6 hours).

The revs will 'flare' while driving along. EG Drive at a steady 40 MPH and the revs will flare from 10kRPM to 15kRPM. Happens just for a second, then 5-10 seconds later will do it again and so on. Along with this the engine feels as though it either loses power or torque. Again just a for a second and then power is back. It can do this several times in a row or sometimes just the once but it will always keep happening until the engine/gearbox has warmed.
Additionally while cold the gearbox changes are sometime on the harsh side. Not very harsh, but enough that you clearly notice. There is no dashboard light.

The following has been done so far:
Got it hooked up to a STAR machine
Stored code came back as "P250 (or P2500) The transmission has an impermissible transmission ratio"
They recommended gearbox oil and filter change
This was done at their expense and the garage commented to me that the oil was 'mucky and muddy like'
But he felt that this should be of significant help

Drove the car the next morning - all the same.
They referred me to a gearbox specialist (as they believe this is the cause) who said only option is to replace/recondition the gearbox which the dealer will not pay for.

So before I go any further I am looking to see if this is really necessary or are there simpler options that I could opt for? Is there further diag that would help?

Once warm it drives great and I very much enjoy my first ever Merc. But that first ten mins is pretty unbearable and I do not want to cause longer term damage.

Many thanks for your thoughts!
Chris U
 

Twistedmind

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Did they fully change the fluid in the gearbox and torque converter ????

Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK
 
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ChrisU

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Dec 6, 2014
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Mercedes C220 CDI W203 2006
Hi,

They did a 'standard' filter and oil change. So - no. There would have been a lot of fluid left in there. It was not flushed, though I would have expected it to help if this was the core problem, even if not completely fix it. It seemed to have no difference.
 

selphy

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Mar 10, 2013
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Mercedes E220CDi
What's the mileage, service history and what type of garage did you buy the car from? Did the supplying garage do the STAR diagnostic? They are surely obliged to sort it out if you only bought the car a few weeks ago.
 

DSM10000

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If bought from a dealer just a few weeks ago then they are obliged to either repair it or refund you unless the gearbox fault was mentioned at the time of purchase.
 
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ChrisU

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Mercedes C220 CDI W203 2006
Hi,

Thanks for the advice - so far the garage has been good and has paid for everything but the thought of the gearbox recon is not so appealing to them and I'm getting little traction there. That said IF it needed to recon the gearbox I will either have them pay or claim against them. But I guess first its confirming what the fault really is. Last thing I want to do is get the recon and find the problem is elsewhere!

History of car is:
103k miles
Full services history but last two were indies. Gearbox fluid had never been done (apparently normal)
STAR was done elsewhere not at the dealership and I spoke to them personally so think its the correct code.
 

Kenner

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Nov 14, 2014
Messages
13
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w203c220cdi
ChrisU said:
Hi, Hoping to get some advice and info before I go with the indie suggested option of reconditioning the gearbox. I have a 2006 CDI220 that I bought just a few weeks back. All seemed well until I drove it on the first cold morning and here is what then happens: Happens only when the engine is COMPLETELY cold (first 10 mins of driving. Will not happen again until rested for 4-6 hours). The revs will 'flare' while driving along. EG Drive at a steady 40 MPH and the revs will flare from 10kRPM to 15kRPM. Happens just for a second, then 5-10 seconds later will do it again and so on. Along with this the engine feels as though it either loses power or torque. Again just a for a second and then power is back. It can do this several times in a row or sometimes just the once but it will always keep happening until the engine/gearbox has warmed. Additionally while cold the gearbox changes are sometime on the harsh side. Not very harsh, but enough that you clearly notice. There is no dashboard light. The following has been done so far: Got it hooked up to a STAR machine Stored code came back as "P250 (or P2500) The transmission has an impermissible transmission ratio" They recommended gearbox oil and filter change This was done at their expense and the garage commented to me that the oil was 'mucky and muddy like' But he felt that this should be of significant help Drove the car the next morning - all the same. They referred me to a gearbox specialist (as they believe this is the cause) who said only option is to replace/recondition the gearbox which the dealer will not pay for. So before I go any further I am looking to see if this is really necessary or are there simpler options that I could opt for? Is there further diag that would help? Once warm it drives great and I very much enjoy my first ever Merc. But that first ten mins is pretty unbearable and I do not want to cause longer term damage. Many thanks for your thoughts! Chris U
hi I have a 54 c220 with the very same problem when hot on the motorway steady 70 there is a slight movement on the rev counter changed the gearbox oil
No different so booked in the local highly recommended indi who after checking with star said MAF, upstream lambdor sensor plus EGR all faulty quoted £1000 plus but they use OE and where happy for myself to supply my own parts saving a lot does in the Monday hope all will be fixed.
 
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ChrisU

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Mercedes C220 CDI W203 2006
hi I have a 54 c220 with the very same problem when hot on the motorway steady 70 there is a slight movement on the rev counter changed the gearbox oil
No different so booked in the local highly recommended indi who after checking with star said MAF, upstream lambdor sensor plus EGR all faulty quoted £1000 plus but they use OE and where happy for myself to supply my own parts saving a lot does in the Monday hope all will be fixed.

Thanks Kenner, let us know how it goes after the swap out!
 
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ChrisU

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Mercedes C220 CDI W203 2006
Anyone have any thoughts on most likely route cause on mine? Still thinking gearbox or poss engine issue? Any other tests that may help me figure it out?
 

S92Jockey

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Apr 23, 2014
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2005 C220 CDI Sport
I had this exact same problem when I bought mine... A 2005 c220 CDI with 100k
Only a 'FULL' gearbox flush will solve it... Promise....
 
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ChrisU

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Mercedes C220 CDI W203 2006
Hi Jockey - this was what I was beginning to think. Now I have drove it a while with the new fluid its a bit better.... not a lot.. but a bit. A fluid change removes so little of the old stuff.

Where did you get it done? how much roughly?
 

dredd32

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ChrisU

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Mercedes C220 CDI W203 2006
Thanks Dredd, better prices than I expected.

Anyone happen to know any in Nottingham :)
 

Kenner

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w203c220cdi
ChrisU said:
Thanks Dredd, better prices than I expected. Anyone happen to know any in Nottingham :)
hi have the car in Monday for the new parts EGR , MAF & upstream lambda all fault codes cleared have tried it two days and all is fine and running well, mine has done 150.000 miles I feel the agr valve does not effect the fault but certainly the maf @ lambda as they are part of fuel management, like ours it it a lot worse when cold and now with this weather it got really bad for the first mile. This appears to be a common problem and as a tried diesel tech I have tried the gearbox oil change and flush checked all air pipes but no improvement hence finally taking it to a Merc indi. I have to say they quoted me £1000 plus as they only use OE parts but were happy for me to supply my own parts and with the Internet got all three for £393 maf & lambda being Bosch and egr valve being OE from Poland a great saving and genuine.
 

S92Jockey

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Apr 23, 2014
Messages
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2005 C220 CDI Sport
ChrisU said:
Hi Jockey - this was what I was beginning to think. Now I have drove it a while with the new fluid its a bit better.... not a lot.. but a bit. A fluid change removes so little of the old stuff. Where did you get it done? how much roughly?

Hi Chris...

AutoTec in Warwick..
Very good.. He uses a different type of oil which he swears by.
Full oil flush and refill , filter and electrical plug and seal....£260....
 
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ChrisU

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Dec 6, 2014
Messages
9
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Mercedes C220 CDI W203 2006
hi have the car in Monday for the new parts EGR , MAF & upstream lambda all fault codes cleared have tried it two days and all is fine and running well, mine has done 150.000 miles I feel the agr valve does not effect the fault but certainly the maf @ lambda as they are part of fuel management, like ours it it a lot worse when cold and now with this weather it got really bad for the first mile. This appears to be a common problem and as a tried diesel tech I have tried the gearbox oil change and flush checked all air pipes but no improvement hence finally taking it to a Merc indi. I have to say they quoted me £1000 plus as they only use OE parts but were happy for me to supply my own parts and with the Internet got all three for £393 maf & lambda being Bosch and egr valve being OE from Poland a great saving and genuine.

Nice, that was a good saving. I'm going to try the oil flush as a first step since I have seen an improvement already and mine didnt report any of those faults on STAR. Failing that - I have some next steps to look at least.
 
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ChrisU

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Mercedes C220 CDI W203 2006
Hi Chris...

AutoTec in Warwick..
Very good.. He uses a different type of oil which he swears by.
Full oil flush and refill , filter and electrical plug and seal....£260....

Thanks - Will give them a call tomorrow.
 

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