W204 C63 - Performance Pack??

Sydoo

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W205 C250 AMG Line sold.....C63 shopping!
So I have seen a facelift C63 saloon which isn’t advertised as a performance pack and I seem to recall those models fitted with the pack had alcantara steering wheel?

The car I have seen has beautiful red brake calipers but no sign of an alcantara wheel?

I appreciate the previous owner could have just had the calipers painted but is there anything else that would give it away as a Performance Pack car?

Si
 

AMGeed

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Get the Vin# and run it through this website to confirm the options fitted.
I seem to recall the engine cover is a different colour ( titanium grey) on the Performance pack and it should have a carbon rear spoiler.

 

Skd884

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Hi

P/P consisted of:
30 hp power hike
Forged pistons, revised crank and con- rods
Intake manifold titanium grey
Carbon boot spoiler - saloon only
Calipers painted red
Alcantara wheel

Was £5200 for saloon and £4680 for estate
LSD was a £1745 option

 

Steve84N

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Forget the steering wheel, painted calipers and carbon spoiler because these are all common modifications people do to any C63. Short of a VIN readout the most reliable way to tell is if it has the darker grey intake manifold instead of the lighter one. I've never seen someone change that on a non Performance Pack car as it's purely visual and it's expensive.
 
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Sydoo

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Thanks all that’s useful to know, I was aware of power hike, strengthened engine parts etc. I was looking at it from an advert viewing point of view.

Will speak to the dealer and see if they will provide VIN - don’t want them realising they are selling a PP car if they don’t realise!

Si
 

Steve84N

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If it doesn't have all the listed items above then it probably isn't as most people probably wouldn't change to leather.
 
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Sydoo

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No that’s a fair point, I wondered if perhaps the alcantara had worn so they just swapped it out for a stock one. No worries, will see if I can get VIN to check.

I assume the PP cars sell at a premium over the stock C63?

Si
 

Billywedlocks

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So a PP Plus , with the changed internals, what isthen needed to make in to a 507 ? I have read that it is to do with ECU and throttle opening/air flow ? Is there anything mechanical ? Has nayone done it ?
 

Steve84N

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A PPP will never have the monetary value of a 507 but you can get the same power with a simple remap as the internals are the same. The difference is indeed the throttle opening being more restricted in a PPP.

The other differences are vented bonnet, 507 edition gearknob, full Dinamica covered steering wheel, forged wheels, decals on the side of the car, black mirror caps/DRL surrounds, black outer front grille and a plaque on the dashboard. Basically, it's a PPP plus a styling exercise.
 

Billywedlocks

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A PPP will never have the monetary value of a 507 but you can get the same power with a simple remap as the internals are the same. The difference is indeed the throttle opening being more restricted in a PPP.

The other differences are vented bonnet, 507 edition gearknob, full Dinamica covered steering wheel, forged wheels, decals on the side of the car, black mirror caps/DRL surrounds, black outer front grille and a plaque on the dashboard. Basically, it's a PPP plus a styling exercise.
Thanks for that. I would go for a 507 but so few with LSD and non coupe (and low miles with full history) . Not that PPP with LSD are overflowing either . The only item I like on 507 over a PPP with LSD is the bonnet. None of the other styling stuff really does it for me. Rather think in 10 years these old monsters will be quite a thing to have for the weekend escape . Would love a BS but that is a cost too far right now.
 

Spider10

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Bonnet can be done for circa £3k OEM or £1.5k to cut out your own bonnet. A Quaife or Wavetrac works well and is about £1.5k fitted.
I have a 2012 ppp definitely need the lsd i got mine fitted by MSL £1550 ALL IN
My 1st 1 2009 had option lsd so i have driven, owned both totally different animal 👍enjoy i personally dont think its worth a remap its quite fast enough plus i have driver's package which raises the speed limited to 175mph
 

Steve84N

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I put a Wavetrac in mine, it's criminal that they let any go out of the door with open diffs imo.

It doesn't 'need' a remap but it's a crying shame not to do it on the standard cars like mine. The power curve is flat after 5krpm and you are completely missing the top end rush. A simple remap returns the engine to how it was designed from the factory before the marketing bods stepped in to artificially limit performance below that of the E63. Now it has a throatier roar with the throttle body allowed to open properly and the last 2krpm is an almost VTEC like rush.

Most high performance engines I wouldn't bother chasing extra power as it's not needed but in the 204 C63 as standard it's missing some of its mojo!
 

Spider10

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I put a Wavetrac in mine, it's criminal that they let any go out of the door with open diffs imo.

It doesn't 'need' a remap but it's a crying shame not to do it on the standard cars like mine. The power curve is flat after 5krpm and you are completely missing the top end rush. A simple remap returns the engine to how it was designed from the factory before the marketing bods stepped in to artificially limit performance below that of the E63. Now it has a throatier roar with the throttle body allowed to open properly and the last 2krpm is an almost VTEC like rush.

Most high performance engines I wouldn't bother chasing extra power as it's not needed but in the 204 C63 as standard it's missing some of its mojo!
I'm all for that mines a quafe fitted and is the only thing m cars got right is lsd standard as for remap yes standard but am I right in thinking no 2 ppp cars are the same bhp ?
 

Steve84N

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PPP cars are all circa 480hp from the factory. Difference over a standard engine is the lighter crankshaft from the M159 in the SLS, plus the forged pistons and conrods from the M159 too. These internals are not needed to handle the power but they let the engine spin up faster so it's slightly more responsive.

The power difference in the PP/PPP is because they allow the throttle to open a bit more than the base M156 but still not as much as in the 507 or E63 etc. They are all nominally the same output, subject to the usual small tolerances as with any production engine.
 

Spider10

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PPP cars are all circa 480hp from the factory. Difference over a standard engine is the lighter crankshaft from the M159 in the SLS, plus the forged pistons and conrods from the M159 too. These internals are not needed to handle the power but they let the engine spin up faster so it's slightly more responsive.

The power difference in the PP/PPP is because they allow the throttle to open a bit more than the base M156 but still not as much as in the 507 or E63 etc. They are all nominally the same output, subject to the usual small tolerances as with any production engine.
I'm sure mine ran 503 bhp but its totally standard ppp?
 

Spider10

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Not unheard of, very possible.
Thats why i didnt see any point in a remap 20200908 132226 — Postimages]
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Steve84N

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20hp is within the variations of different dynos, some are more optimistic than others. Also, unless you've owned it from new how do you really know it's standard...? A remap is not something you can easily detect so if it's not been flashed an ECU update by a dealer recently it could have been mapped by someone else in the past.
 

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