W205 2016MY C220d Brake Judder

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I do wonder if it's a side-effect of modern materials. Friction parts (pads especially) seem to last a lot longer that I remember them doing in the past, that could just be rose tinted glasses though.
 
Doodle said:
I do wonder if it's a side-effect of modern materials. Friction parts (pads especially) seem to last a lot longer that I remember them doing in the past, that could just be rose tinted glasses though.
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Yeah, you may well be right on that.

I'm also wondering if the friction material compound is compromised delivering high performance vs the school run braking. Pads optimised for high performance can squeal and glaze if not used firmly and pads optimised for pottering about are useless for a big stop.

I must say, I'm impressed with the stopping power of these brakes.
 
Bit of an update.

For the last few weeks, we have avoided using the Hold function. Light braking is now MUCH smoother than before. No juddering at higher speeds, and no 'grabbing' at low traffic-queue speeds.

So, there does seem to be something in the theory that when the brakes are hot, using the Hold function results in some sort of transfer/interaction between the disc and pad material. Don't know whether the result is a difference in physical dimensions or a surface treatment that results in a spot change in friction coefficient.

Anyway, going to continue to avoid using the Hold function and see how things progress.
 
Just had the same problem on my 2016 W205 at 15,000 miles. Juddering when braking speed is between 40-50 MPH gradually stops as the car slows through 15 - 20 MPH. Not noticeable braking at higher speeds until the speed goes through 40 -50 MPH. I couldn't feel it through the steering and hardly through the brake pedal but vibration through the seat which indicated the rear brakes. Anyway dealer replaced rear discs and pads road tested and said they weren't satisfied so they changed the front pads and discs as well. All under warranty. Problem solved drives as new.

They couldn't offer a reason as to whether it was a warped disc or pad deposits; however reading the Mercedes Guide (downloaded App) the section on brakes states that the discs are made of a lightweight material and that shock-type loads when handling the discs such as when changing wheels can lead to a reduction in driving comfort.

So presumably a bit of a knock can cause a disc to go out of true and this might be the cause.
 
eltel1947 said:
Just had the same problem on my 2016 W205 at 15,000 miles. Juddering when braking speed is between 40-50 MPH gradually stops as the car slows through 15 - 20 MPH. Not noticeable braking at higher speeds until the speed goes through 40 -50 MPH. I couldn't feel it through the steering and hardly through the brake pedal but vibration through the seat which indicated the rear brakes. Anyway dealer replaced rear discs and pads road tested and said they weren't satisfied so they changed the front pads and discs as well. All under warranty. Problem solved drives as new.

They couldn't offer a reason as to whether it was a warped disc or pad deposits; however reading the Mercedes Guide (downloaded App) the section on brakes states that the discs are made of a lightweight material and that shock-type loads when handling the discs such as when changing wheels can lead to a reduction in driving comfort.

So presumably a bit of a knock can cause a disc to go out of true and this might be the cause.
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My 2015 s205 with 19k started to get the judder/pulsating feel via the steering wheel. It was normally after a long period of driving.As a result my dealer have just replaced all discs and pads under warranty. I also decided to change the front tyres to Goodyear Efficient Performance whilst everything was off as the Contis were just becoming awful. Dealer stated that they had dealt with similar issues with this earlier model. Apparently, there are some quality control issues with the discs and the replacements are now lighter so it should solve the problem. Only time will tell but what I do know is that the car just feels much better under braking and no doubt the new tyres are helping on this.
 
I've got the same issue on a 2016 W213; I've read plenty of people have the issue with standard brakes though mine has the bigger AMG line ones. Mercedes UK flatly refuses to acknowledge any issue and won't offer more than a 50% "goodwill" gesture. Utterly appalled that this is a common issue across Mercedes products but they are denying anything is wrong with mine and it's a "wear and tear item". Funny, that after over 20,000 miles my brakes were less than 15% worn when checked for judder.
 
And my 2016 W213 (not AMG) is also the same, been told that it's been caused by having the tyres replaced not by the dealer or an approved workshop and the bolts being tightened incorrectly, too much or in the wrong order.

Now, am I the only person who thinks it unreasonable that a car sold without a spare can only have a tyre replaced at an approved workshop??

And they want £800 for a set of discs. Not including pads.
 
That's bloody crazy but sadly I'm not surprised. There is a Xentry Tips document ( LI42.10-P-066910) for the non AMG rotors and it's very specific about not using an impact wrench and tightening in a specific order.

As Mercedes themselves pointed out to me, tyres are a wear item and expect to be changed. So I'm right there with you, why the hell can damage like that be caused to the car by not following the procedure that if only clear to Mercedes?

The manual (I just checked) shows the torque value to use and shows the crosswise pattern to tighten the wheel BUT makes no mention of possible rotor damage, only that the wheel could become loose. It also doesn't say not to use an impact wrench.

The Xentry tip also shows a slightly different way of tightening the bolts, first by hand, then to 70Nm then lower car and tighten to manual levels.

It screams of design flaw to me and a Merc tech in Europe who posts on a different forum has said the current rotors and hubs are known to be fragile.

So, workw kicking off about I'd say. I've asked MBCS UK to escalate to Germany or provide me with a written response so I can take it to the motor ombudsman.

I think the thing that really annoyed me about all this is how cold they were with me on the phone. Id listed out the many issues I had with the car, was asking for some common sense and they didn't even mention all the old stuff, no "werew really sorry your experience with your latest Mercedes is not up to standard" or similar. Nothing. Just straight in to telling me to, in so many words, to F off.

For info, the local dealer would replace amg line front discs and pads for 400 quid, would think non AMG would be a bit cheaper as would the rears so 800 is crazy, sounds as greedy as the dealer I bought the car from.
 
I got my written response from the dealer today it was toned down but did not accept any responsibility. Have approached my tyre fitter and am using my other car so keeping track of mileage and expenses.


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I'm taking my case to the motor ombudsman. Suggest you do the same.
 
Resolution obtained with dealer. New disks and pads all round with a contribution towards wear (I am at 28k miles)
 
Update for what it's worth on my post 24 of 18 April 2018

2.5k miles after all pads and discs replaced problem is back, just the same as before. Car juddering when braking above 45 until speed reaches about 30. Thing is, I can't feel anything noticeable through the pedal or the steering, just seems that the whole car snatches, worse if only light pedal applied. Back to the dealer, not optimistic, but still under warranty.
 
eltel1947 said:
Update for what it's worth on my post 24 of 18 April 2018

2.5k miles after all pads and discs replaced problem is back, just the same as before. Car juddering when braking above 45 until speed reaches about 30. Thing is, I can't feel anything noticeable through the pedal or the steering, just seems that the whole car snatches, worse if only light pedal applied. Back to the dealer, not optimistic, but still under warranty.
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Back in the dealers for 4 days last week. All 4 discs had run-out. Rears worse than fronts, this after 2.5k miles since last replaced. MB say they've had manufacturing defects with some discs, and have replaced them again (seems odd that the originals from new in 2016 had the same defect!)

All hubs checked for run out and ok, hub/disc faces checked and cleaned. Advised not to use Hold function (I don't) after "enthusiastic driving" I don't, I'm 70+ !! Also suggested not to leave electronic parking brake on if car left unused/garaged for any time just put in P if level and release HB. They stressed importance of not using an air wrench when changing tyres and to manually torque to correct settings following specified tightening sequence.

Judder completely gone (again) so we'll see.......
 
Hi, Just discovered this post. It's good to see i am not the only one having this problem (like Mercedes keep telling me!!) I have now had two sets of from pads and 1 set of rear pads on my 2015 C350e. It only done 35k of careful motorway driving. The judder problem i have is exactly as described in these posts. Ive got the car booked in for another check. I will report back with an update.
 
I've just got my 2015 C220d Sport back from the dealers which went in with this problem. I bought the car a year ago with 22k on the clock from a main dealer. On the test drive I noticed a problem with juddering slightly and just mentioned it and so was pleased when I picked the car up they had put new discs and pads on. Move on 9 months and 20k and the juddering comes back with a vengeance though I have only just had time to take it to a different dealer having done 27k in a year. The dealer says it's warped discs with the runout of 0.12 when the tolerance is 0.1 so just outside. He says this could be caused by a stone and then when I point out what are the chances of 2 stones causing the same and no scoring on the discs says it could also be the caliper carrier bolts being put in incorrectly. One side had some work done to it (new bushes to get rid of rattle and a strut) and he also said this could cause the warped discs. They would not replace the discs as they could not say what caused it. It seems a bit unfair as all the work has been done by different MB dealers so I would have thought if they had done something incorrectly then they should rectify it under the approved used scheme. I did tell him about this thread but just ignored it saying MB would know if there was a problem. As it's now 3 days out of warranty I'll try some abrasive paper on the discs as recommended on the Ferodo website.Any thoughts appreciated.
 
I had this noise on my 2015 prefacelift car
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(AMG Line drilled ventilated discs)

And on my brand new 2019 facelift car, again AMG Line ventilated discs it was quiet for the first 250 miles and I thought great they solved it. But then the exact same noise, not similar, exact came back. So it's a characteristic it seems .
 
Brake judder all but gone. I have stopped using hold function and really cut down on cruise control and the problem got less and less over the past 1.5k miles. Barely noticeable. If only the rattles would go now.......
 
RustyB1962 said:
Hi I have a 2016 C300 coupe with 6k miles, and it's in MB Stratford upon Avon for the same issue since last Friday! I've been getting steering wheel shake during braking at speeds from 45/50mph, getting worse over 70mph. The dealer rep is waiting for a response from MB direct, but won't divulge what the issue is! I think it could be a more prevalent issue than just a few cars.
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Hi i have the same issue with my E class w213 66 plate brake judder did any one from you guys manage to solve the issue?
 
Hello, I have encountered this same brake judder issue on my recently acquired 2016 C250D AMG Line...car judders on light breaking in the 40-55mph range...can feel it through the driver's seat and the passenger seat vibrates noticeably along with the rear seat head restraints. I assume this is linked to an issue with the rear brake discs. Car was bought from an independent dealer so discs not covered under their warranty. Looks like a trip the MB dealer...££££
 
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