W210 E280 Engine Tappet Noise & Slightly Lumpy Idle

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My mate has an 2000 year model E280. The engine was making a tappet noise so his mechanic (ex merc employee) changed all 18 tappets but the noise is still there. The engine is also slightly lumpy on idle. Yet the car drives extremely well. The car has been serviced regularly by Mercedes and has only about 60 to 70k miles on it. Does anyone have any ideas what could be causing the tappet noise?
 

Dieselman

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Either worn valve followers or maybe loose timing chain.
 
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E280

Hi Dieselman when you say worn valve followers is this the same as the rockers? if so they are fine... the car has been stripped down to the camshafts and all components upto and including the camshaft are fine. The timing chain is fine as well. The tappet nosie only seems to be coming from one cylinder on the left bank although can't tell precisely which also the noise is only on idle as soon as you rev the engine there is no noise. I have been told by somebody that the new tappets might need time / a good run to 'bed in' is this correct?
 

Dieselman

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If all the components were replaced together then they shouldn't need to bed in, however there may be one lazy tappet which fills with oil once the engine is revved.

It is probably worth seeing how it goes for a while before doing anything. I have heard of tappets sticking for upto 8,000 miles on new cars then freeing off.
 
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Hi Dieselman thanks for your reply. Only the tappets have been replaced so perhaps it might be better as you say to leave things alone for a while and see how it goes.
 

leonb

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Damn, I have excactly the same problem!

The hydraulic lifters on my C280 (v6 - 150 000 km) were also noisy - or at least one. So I bit the bullet and send it in to replace all the lifters.

The lifter noise came back after about two days. Does anyone know why this would happen??

The idling is also slightly rough, and I'm fairly sure it was fine before replacing the lifters.
 

paul m

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If all new lifters fitted ,got to be the supply of oil to them? i would have thought , i removed right hand rocker cover on mine and the amount of caked on dryed up oil was unbelievable came off in lumps, engine breathers blocked up also,maybe some restriction in the oil holes supplying lifters. E240 v6 129k full dealer history.
 

Dieselman

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paul m said:
If all new lifters fitted ,got to be the supply of oil to them? i would have thought , i removed right hand rocker cover on mine and the amount of caked on dryed up oil was unbelievable came off in lumps, engine breathers blocked up also,maybe some restriction in the oil holes supplying lifters. E240 v6 129k full dealer history.

And folks still don't supply their own oil to the dealer or request an engine flush at oil change. What oil has the dealer been using?

Gunge or "black death" is the result of oil that can't handle the amount of carbon in it.
Always use full synthetic oil and flush engin to remove varnish build-up.
 

paul m

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Duckhams and castrol magnatec, all written in the service book,I have in the two months owning the car,flushed engine changed filter used new full synthetic three times now,hoping things will get better,tappet noise that is,only happens on cold start up or after about 8 hours rest.
 

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My straight-6 engine has a camshaft idle setting (can't remember proper name for it).
Anyway, does a V6 have 2 of these things ? Could one side of the engine NOT be going into idle mode and hence giving a slightly rough idle ?
 

Dieselman

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paul m said:
Duckhams and castrol magnatec,

Oh dear!!

Both low grade mineral oils, which won't really do the job required, especially over a long drain interval. :(

For the noisy tappets you could try flushing again or pull the tappets and clean them out with parrafin.
 

paul m

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Why do MB use these oils if they are not up to job,wouldnt you think they know best,well only full synth from now on.
 

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paul m said:
Why do MB use these oils if they are not up to job,wouldnt you think they know best,well only full synth from now on.
Absolutely right. I think its a case of them buying a job lot of it from some sales person, then lumping it on us poor sods.

Last few services I've taken my own oil for them to use as its way cheaper than paying their silly prices for Mobil 1 etc.

Paul, FYI mate, the tappet noise has gone now, thanks to the ATf flush a little while back. From time to time I do get a small clatter on startup but this disappears in about 3 seconds as the lifters get their oil.

HTH,
Greg
 

Dieselman

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paul m said:
Why do MB use these oils if they are not up to job,wouldnt you think they know best,well only full synth from now on.


You will find that low grade oils are approved by MB to 229.1 specification or maybe even higher.

A dealer is probably paying around 50-80 pence a litre for mineral based oil. Now why do they use it????
 

paul m

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Suppose if oil changes are often enough sludge wouldnt have much chance of building up using low grade oil, on to my third oil/ filter/flush change now, things seem to be better now, Tappet noise that is,dont hear it so much now. But every morning i start the car wondering whats instore today ,this morning side light bulb failure, yesterday oil sensor came on,day before that tappet noise,these little things annoy the hell out of me, never had anything like this with my 124 but i suppose thats progress.
 

big x

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Magnatec is a good oil however it's not designed for extended drain times on high performance engines.In the States they change mineral oil every 3k or six months.
I looked at a low mileage BMW 523i the other day at a car supermarket and it had the oil services done per the lights at 18k almost 16 months of motoring with ordinary mineral oil.Lifting the oil filler cap and there was thick white mayonase on the inside.The breathing on 6 cylinder cars seems marginal for some reason and it was no surprise that 2 other BMW's I looked at at the same time had the same problem.
I notice BMW now specify 10w/60 Castrol Edge as the only oil suitable for the current M series engines.Mobil 1 is apparently not good enough.
http://129.35.64.91/bpglis/lubtds.nsf/technicaldata/F8CF68535C90AF94802570880030EC71?OpenDocument




adam
 
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Dieselman

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big x said:
Magnatec is a good oil however it's not designed for extended drain times on high performance engines.

Without wanting to be argumentative, how can you say this? This is a basic mineral oil with a very low percentage of PAO added as a marketing excersise.
big x said:
I looked at a low mileage BMW 523i the other day at a car supermarket and it had the oil services done per the lights at 18k almost 16 months of motoring with ordinary mineral oil.Lifting the oil filler cap and there was thick white mayonase on the inside.The breathing on 6 cylinder cars seems marginal for some reason and it was no surprise that 2 other BMW's I looked at at the same time had the same problem.
I notice BMW now specify 10w/60 Castrol Edge as the only oil suitable for the current M series engines.Mobil 1 is apparently not good enough.
http://129.35.64.91/bpglis/lubtds.nsf/technicaldata/F8CF68535C90AF94802570880030EC71?OpenDocument

"Good enough" or not of suitable viscosity? Note the viscosity index 10w/60, whereas Mobil1 is 0w/40. It is normal for performance engines to require a higher viscosity oil due to the clearances being greater and the oil having to provide better pressure protection.
A thicker oil provides better protection than a thinner oil, which is why the latest oil specs are not necessarily better. They are generally specifying a thinner oil for fuel economy reasons.

All long life oils are thinner than their standard life versions to allow longer for thickening due to particle matter, hence it is still better to change the oil frequently.
 

GregE240

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Further to Dieselmans comment, and I might be wrong on this, but as far as I am aware, there is no British Standard concerning so called semi-synthetic oils. To this end, you could put any old rubbish in a mineral base (which they all are), and then call it semi synthetic.

I'd avoid at all costs. Given the extended changing intervals ASSYST offers, for me its synthetic or nowt.
 
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paul m said:
wonderin if tappet noise gone

Dont know yet...have not had the chance to take the car out.
 

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