W210 - Poor ride and stability

[Cliff_G]

Having sorted the alignment, my 1997 E320 W210 Avantgarde ("sports" suspension) is still not riding right, IMHO.

It wobbles/rocks from side to side far more than any car I've ever had before, it tends to twich out at the back when hitting a pot hole, and is far more "lively" than I expected.

Its handling is good - seems to be better the faster it goes, but the ride...

I am not sure whether it is :

(a) all perfect, but it's just the way it rides - low (ish) profile tyres, fully independent rear suspension, presumably no anti-roll bar (must get under when it's dry)

(b) knackered bushings (it has new shocks and a decent 4-wheel alignment)

(c) a rogue for some other reason

Tyres are Pirelli P6000s 215/55 R16

I've seen the odd other W210 look as if it rocks side to side a bit.

I've had a main dealer and an independent (non-Merc) say there's nowt wrong with it, but then when you ask them what they felt, it never sounds like they even got in it! These plus one other have all looked at the bushings and said OK, but then yoiu never know until you replace bushings.

I'm going to try a local Independent Merc service garage, but it's all getting expensive.

Any ideas?

TIA

 

[aka$h]

Why dont you try and drive another similarly speced w210, similar engine, age, and avantgarde. May be at a car dealership?
Would be a good way to decide if the ride is different.

 

[Cliff_G]

Yup, am looking. Meanwhile...?

?Any thoughts, any1?

 

[Dieselman]

Its handling is good - seems to be better the faster it goes, but the ride...

This sounds about right. I guess you're not interested in adding 18" rims then?

 

[silverclk230]

Its strange you mention how your car rides, as I feel mine is similar "It wobbles/rocks from side to side far more than any car I've ever had before, it tends to twich out at the back when hitting a pot hole, and is far more "lively" than I expected." - this is pretty much how I would describe mine, if I had to.
Wonder if this is a MB characteristic, or the fact the car is RWD, or a combination of both. That said, as mine is convertible, I have put it down to the body flexing as there is no roof. Also its the first RWD car I have had for 15 years so perhaps not used to RWD.
Fitting new wheels & tyres (an upgrade) helped no end, and a 4 wheel alignment & repacement steering damper + worn ball joint replacement further improved things, but its still not comfortable (say) hitting a pothole on a bend at moderate speed. However on good surfaces the ride is perfection.
Best try another similar model to see what its like compared to yours before you spend any more cash.

The wheel upgrade was from 16" to 17". Surprisingly did not make ride harder at all, if anything improved it!

 

[Cliff_G]

>Wonder if this is a MB characteristic, or the fact the car is RWD,
>or a combination of both.

It's not that it is RWD. I have driven almost exclusively RWD over the years (I hate FWD handling as much as BMW do!). However, most RWDs I have driven have had a leaf sprung rear, with only a semi-live rear axle, and the characteristic of these is to go up and down together (i.e. both sides) at the back when hitting bumps etc.

The Merc is, as far as I can remember from when I briefly looked under, a fully independent rear suspension, coil sprung with large wishbones but the springs fairly well inboard.

I am coming to the conclusion it is the feel of Mercs.

The handling is always good - for a big car you can chuck it around and it never misses a beat - strangely the twitchy stuff disappears when you are doing this.

> I have put it down to the body flexing as there is no roof.

I would personally doubt that Mercs would let a soft-top body flex much !

> still not comfortable (say) hitting a pothole on a bend at moderate speed.

As I say, the twitchy stuff seems to go away for me when "using" it a bit more.

>Best try another similar model to see what its like
>compared to yours before you spend any more cash.

Definitely !

 

[Cliff_G]

Update/ question

I had a word with Mercedes Performance of Bushey and they suggested changing the springs to Eibach, which they felt would be noticeably better. However, it would give a firmer ride. When I said I already felt the ride was firm enough and what about anti-roll bars, they still said they'd suggest doing the springs first. It's an Avantgarde, so it has the "sports" suspension, which presumably has harder springs anyway. The shocks are new, OEM.

Since that conversation I have paid more attention to the ride as far as roll etc is concerned. I am not at all sure about changing the springs, as the car corners pretty flat anway (I'm not an expert, but it handles pretty well - it's the straight-line body roll and back-end twitch over potholes that are my gripes). The back seems towaggle a bit as well.

I still think anti-roll bars might be the way to go - or at least soemthing that will help oppose the straight-line roll forces.

Anyone have any comments or has anyone done any of these mods?

 

[dvndave]

Iv'e just got a '98 C Classic 2.5 TD and this is my eighth merc but Iv'e never had a ride like it. It feels like the tyres are over inflated and seems to follow every rut and line on the road surface!
It looks like we're all stuck with it.

Cheers

Dave

 

[C240Sport97]

The ride on my W202 (17" AMGs) went from way too hard to being firm and compliant .. merely by switching from Continental ContiSportContact to Pirelli P Zero Rossos. Just done a long trip (about 650 miles this bank holiday week-end) on the Pirellis and they have really transformed the car. Best investment I ever made, car wise.

 

[jacfonso]

same thing

Hi,


Can Cliff_G already solved your problem and since when you feel that "wobbles/rocks from side to side" ? how many miles has your car?

I´ve a W210 E220D Elegance and the same problem but only since I`ved changed wheels from 15" to 16". I´m considering change all the suspension parts, buschings, shocks, tie rods everything hopping get a better ride.

 

[silverclk230]

Hmmm, I have Conti sport contacts. May consider changing them (only when they are worn out though) to see if that improves the feel of the car.

 

[C240Sport97]

read this thread ... re:Contis

http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7207

Hmmm, I have Conti sport contacts. May consider changing them (only when they are worn out though) to see if that improves the feel of the car.

 

[uumode]

I have a W210 E240 on standard setup and it rides fine, nice and comfy in fact.
(but then it is on factory tyres and rims)

Doesn't seem to exhibit the wobbly and rocking motions described,
BUT it does roll a bit when cornering hard as the suspension is soft.

...and oh boy... the wheel twirling that is required on tight turns as the steering is so low geared!

 

[Vips]

I had a 230E previously and during traffic, even driving at 5-10 mps, the car would rock side to side. My mechanic told me that the tryes were 'warped'. I changed them and the rocking seized.

 

[bolide]

W210 suspension

I had a word with Mercedes Performance of Bushey and they suggested changing the springs to Eibach, which they felt would be noticeably better. However, it would give a firmer ride. When I said I already felt the ride was firm enough and what about anti-roll bars, they still said they'd suggest doing the springs first. It's an Avantgarde, so it has the "sports" suspension, which presumably has harder springs anyway. The shocks are new, OEM.

That just shows they weren't listening to you. But then any company called Mercedes Performance that's based in Bushey is not likely to be concerned with the finer points of suspension tuning...

Since that conversation I have paid more attention to the ride as far as roll etc is concerned. I am not at all sure about changing the springs, as the car corners pretty flat anway (I'm not an expert, but it handles pretty well - it's the straight-line body roll and back-end twitch over potholes that are my gripes). The back seems towaggle a bit as well.

I still think anti-roll bars might be the way to go - or at least soemthing that will help oppose the straight-line roll forces.

There are no straight-line roll forces by definition...

The W210 is a derivation of the W124 and should handle well. If it's banging & crashing and the tail is loose then something's wrong

I'd suspect antiroll bar bushes front & rear, old, hard, tyres, worn front balljoints, worn suspension bushes, worn engine & gearbox mounts

There's a big old antiroll bar on the front of these cars and it does dominate the way the car handles. If anything's loose there then the car will feel strange as you move from lock to lock

There's a smaller bar on the back and it doesn't affects the handling as much as the front one. There is also a pair of track rod-like control arms that set the rear tracking and when the bushes wear the car tends to steer itself. These are about £15 each for a W124 so I'd just replace them

Unfortunately by changing the dampers & having a 4-wheel alingment you've approached the problem from the end rather than the beginning. Mercedes dampers last extremely well (or used to) and I wouldn't suspect them. I'd do the bushes & all the tricky bits, replace the tyres, four wheel align it and then look at springs & dampers when all else fails

There is still a fair amount of body roll on these cars but that's designed in. It's the transition between straight-ahead and from one lock to the other that's important, not the body roll as such (as proved by the Citroen 2CV and early Range Rovers which roll like fury but still handle well) and I think the way that transition is handled is the key to the way a car feels


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[ShinyF1]

W210 Suspension

Sorry - coming very late on this one.

I have a E320 CDI AG estate with factory upgraded sports suspension and 17" wheels, and share the opinion about the lateral 'bounce'. I drove standard 240 and 320 CDI AG models recently which both rode a lot better then my car. London streets and AG+sport suspension do not go together.

Mine is perfect out of town, although I think it needs front bushes [a light knock over speed bumps].

Does anyone think that indy workshops might lack correct adjustment info for the sport setup?

 

[BenzComander]

New front shocks, and anti roll bar bushes sorted mine out (W210 AG E320 petrol estate 1997) She had done 155K though!!

 

[Pietre]

I thought the A/G had wider tyres than 215's. I have the sports chassis and A/G suspension on mine and it gets skittish over bumps, but I put that down to the 235 tyres on 18" rims, other than that it corners like it's on rails. I think 17" wheels would be a good compromise.