w211 cdi's

[c_200k]

Because a petrol gets to temp far quicker.

My experiences with various cars round town, all autos...

530d vs 530i = 29mpg vs 26mpg

E270cdi vs E320 = 29mpg vs 25mpg

535d vs 335i = 26mpg vs 26mpg

320d vs 330i = 32mpg vs 27mpg


So hardly sod all in it between the petrols and diesels.

The 320d is a perfect example, my old commute was 3 miles through suburbs with 3 roundabouts and 3 sets of lights followed by on junction waiting to get onto a busy road, then 6 miles down the A11 and another mile through town.
The car would not get over 26mpg doing this run. Even my A6 tdi avant multitronic or the 2.5tdi A4 avant would not break the 30mpg barrier either. However, if I had been using the car and it was up to temperature before setting off the 320d would see 35mpg and the Audis closer to 40mpg.

Reset the diesel when it is up to temp and cruise at 70mph and the figures are great. I always used to do this and be very impressed with it, then stopped mpg watching and managed to go 8000 miles without resetting it and realised that maybe the figures were not as good as I first thought.

I always tend to get pretty close to the urban official figures with a diesel, but with a petrol it tends to be closer to the combined figure.
I currently have an Efficient Dynamics 320d and that is the only car that I have managed to get over the combined figure on a long run, without it having 100k+ miles on it already. But even that on short 10 miles journeys is pretty poor for a 2.0litre diesel imho.

whats your opinion on the 530i i have been thinking of getting one

 

[st4]

Thats why Im thinking of a 520d manual, I had a 320d manual ad used to get 42mpg locally.

What about an E220cdi.

 

[gIzzE]

whats your opinion on the 530i i have been thinking of getting one

Well my 530i was an E39 saloon auto, I still have it although my brother has been using it for the last 6 months.
Probably the best all round BMW ever built, sweet engine, superb handling, comfy, nice design and will do between 25-35mpg.

In a lot of ways I prefered it to my E61 535d sport touring and 335i sport touring, something about a NA straight six engine that is sublime.
Don't get me wrong the twin turbo set ups on the new BMWs are great, an engineering masterpiece, press the throttle and in any rev range you have power, quirt and go! But ultimately that is their downfall too, they are a bit souless.

In some ways that is why I think the Mercs suit the big 6 cyl CDI engines, the Mercedes is more suited to that relaxed shove of torque you get with a diesel more than the BMW is, you just waft around, no drama.

 

[gIzzE]

I think the w211 wins on class and looking prestige, but I like the look of the e60 5er, and may suit be better being only 24

I agree with that completely. I am now 35 and appreciate the Merc far more, but compared to the BMWs I used to find them really dull. If you like to drive your car, rather than cruise round in comfort the E60 is definitely the one to go for over a W211.
And with the design, again it is aimed at a much older demographic, I went to the Oktoberfest in Stuttgart as a guest of Olymp Brezner, Europe's largest shirt manufacturer, and we were sat with Mercedes and Porsche, and I got talking to the guys in charge about cars, turns out he had a CSL as his toy, and was quite open about the fact Mercedes are aimed at the 35-40+ market and didn't even consider BMW as a rival, his said his biggest rival was really Audi and was impressed that their product had an ageless quality about it, the fact a young 20 year old would be an Audi and so would his grandfather, with mercedes is is usually the father and the grandfather.

I would say that is starting to change with the new C Class though and it will be interesting to see what the new E class is like compared with the BMW, a lot of BMW drivers are getting jarred off with the run flat situation, it turns a truly phenomenal car into something pretty poor to be honest.

 

[Uberwagon]

Big petrol is far better 6than a big diesel imo.

But a smaller diesel is far better than a smaller petrol, especially in a car with an auto box.

Dave!

 

[gIzzE]

I agree, but alot of peoples first experience of living with a big torquey engine is a diesel which is why I think the diesels get so much praise, most have never experienced a torquey petrol.

Just imagine diesel lovers if that car had no lag, revved to 7000rpm, was smooth as silk even at tickover and sounded divine when pressing on. Petrol every time if money is no object.

 

[Dieselman]

I agree, but alot of peoples first experience of living with a big torquey engine is a diesel which is why I think the diesels get so much praise, most have never experienced a torquey petrol.

Just imagine diesel lovers if that car had no lag, revved to 7000rpm, was smooth as silk even at tickover and sounded divine when pressing on. Petrol every time if money is no object.

Important words there on both counts. A TD of any given size will produce more torque and cost a lot less to run.

 

[timskemp]

Trouble is that for more than 99% of the population, even the Mercedes owners, money is a big object.

Torque is irrelevant, torque never made anything move, it's power that does that* so for me as long as it's got >100bhp per ton it's a good everyday car, and 150-200bhp/ton is going to feel quick. Big torque figures from low RPM just make it easier to drive.

 

[Dieselman]

Trouble is that for more than 99% of the population, even the Mercedes owners, money is a big object.

Torque is irrelevant, torque never made anything move, it's power that does that* so for me as long as it's got >100bhp per ton it's a good everyday car, and 150-200bhp/ton is going to feel quick. Big torque figures from low RPM just make it easier to drive.

Having more torque means an engine has more power. Power is a theoretical figure, torque is a measured output.
Try an E240 petrol, it has over 100bhp/ton but feels like a slug due to lack of torque.

 

[timskemp]

Having more torque means an engine has more power. Power is a theoretical figure, torque is a measured output.
Try an E240 petrol, it has over 100bhp/ton but feels like a slug due to lack of torque.

Except that it isn't, you just have to drive the car in the engine speed range where it develops the power. I'm happy with diesels, petrols, fours, sixes, eights or twelves, as long as it's got enough tyre contact area and sorted chassis to go round corners quick, and enough power to break traction, I'm happy

All things being equal - in fact I prefer a high revving engine. More of a sense of excitement and better control and predictability at low-mid revs.

 

[gIzzE]

You know it is funny you say that, I sold my 335i recently after borrowing a 330i, the 335i was rapid, tuned to 365bhp and 480nm of torque, where as the 330i was 272bhp and only 320nm of torque.
But the 330i was the more enjoyable of the two, far slower, but more satisfying.
For racking the miles up on the motorway the 335i was the winner, but for just going out for a drive for the sake of it the 330i was all over it. I decided though that I may as well have a diesel than the 335i, made more sense, 320d mapped is 210bhp and 40+ mpg, 7seconds to 60mph never feels sluggish either, not as quick as the 4.6 seconds to 60mph the 335i was, but the only tme you really use that is when??

I also have an E30 325i which you have to rev the nuts off, but again it is so rewarding, take a corner in the wrong gear and you blame only yourself, get it right the next time and it is all the sweeter. With a turbo car you don't get that, it seems to be in power from 2-4000rpm, makes you look good but ultimately not as satisfying.


But then who wants that all the time?? Not many people.
Great for your weekend toy, a track plaything, but for anyone who wants a luxury everyday car it is far from ideal, and that is why these manufacturers offer us choice I guess?

 

[Dieselman]

Can't agree. A low torque engine uses reduction gears to multiply the torque produced by the engine and still accellerates more slowly with more fuel and effort.

For example. A W124 300-24 valve produces more power than a 320 but is not such a nice car to drive or as quick.

The old adage applies. People buy cars for BHP but drive the torque.

 

[st4]

Having more torque means an engine has more power. Power is a theoretical figure, torque is a measured output.
Try an E240 petrol, it has over 100bhp/ton but feels like a slug due to lack of torque.

Never have but have heard the stories, its a heavy car with not an awful lot of power.

Except that it isn't, you just have to drive the car in the engine speed range where it develops the power. I'm happy with diesels, petrols, fours, sixes, eights or twelves, as long as it's got enough tyre contact area and sorted chassis to go round corners quick, and enough power to break traction, I'm happy

I had a car like that, my first BMW X5, lovely I6 engine but boy if you wanted to go fast (which you did being a BMW) you did have to keep it on the boil (4k+ RPM) and this was at detriment to fuel economy. My E220cdi doesn't feel as fast but having a look @ the speedo confirms the obvious, and it has enough power (or should I say Torque @ maximum RPM) to break traction.

All things being equal - in fact I prefer a high revving engine. More of a sense of excitement and better control and predictability at low-mid revs.

Yes, very exciting but heavy on fuel. There is something equally exciting about having a diesel @ 1.5krpm, seeing a gap and nailing it past someone. It wouldn't happen in an E240, but maybe @ 4.5k revs you'd be off just as quick.

Read our mods very helpful guide here

 

[bill3862]

What about an E220cdi.

Just returned from second trip to South CZ Republic in eight weeks using E220 CDI and confirm the following for latest trip;

(1) Calais to Brno CZ 845 miles non stop (except 2 x fuel stops), average 43.7 mpg, average speed 65 mph, adhered to speed limits ie 130 kph F, 120 kph BE, 120/130 Germany and 130 kph CZ using cruise control

(2) Total mileage in twelve days of 2105 and showed average of 40.9 mpg and 51 mph average speed for the whole trip - ten days use of vehicle in city traffic, including twice daily short motorway hops from Hotel to Airport for work.

(3) Not a hic cup in either trip, no oil used and no back ache, totally faultless and a pleasure to drive.

I find 220CDI engine perfectly adequate for these long short notice trips in terms of economy and quiet running.

Previous vehicle was C200K and this vehicle averaged 35mpg over same distances/route, so not a great deal of difference in fuel consumption. (With EU diesel prices now, the great savings made a few years ago are now much less and this opens great debate for me as to stay with diesel when change time comes or back to petrol.)

I also now use Honda scooter for local trips at home and use car once a week for shopping if required. £15 a year road tax, £120 Fully comprehensive insurance, 82mpg and no parking problems swayed me in this direction. Being a young 62 years now, I am looking for 600 cc Honda scooter before 'final roundup' or age catches up with me!!!

Do not dismiss E220 CDI out of hand

 

[Dieselman]

Thanks for the feedback, but 40 mpg doesn't seem very good for a 220cdi on a long journey. My 300TD managed 41.7 round trip to Torquay last week.

 

[st4]

Thanks for the feedback, but 40 mpg doesn't seem very good for a 220cdi on a long journey. My 300TD managed 41.7 round trip to Torquay last week.

Its okay, remember the its a heavy car and engine loading may be quite high-it was a holiday trip etc. Your car isn't equipped with that EU4 nonsense particulate gear that hinders MPG. Also speeds of 130kmph are quite high and on that car well above 2krpm (nearer 3k) so well out of the "peak efficiency" rev range.

Enter my best.

 

[Dieselman]

A particulate filter is an option. Still 40mpg seems low for such a run at national speed limits.
I wonder if it needs a new MAF.

Tim...????

 

[timskemp]

Heh - I drive harder than most, and am seeing 35.4 overall since last time it was reset (the meet at Jay's...)

Town driving sees high 20s, runs to centre of london and back will run high 30s low 40s, edinburgh yesterday 38mpg driven as hard as I dare, slighty less on the way back in the rain (though there was one very long uphill overtake that was just one big powerslide!)

W211 is the way to go, I've a friend who had a current shape 520d (just traded it in for a 730d) and he preferred my 03 E270 to his simliarly powerful 06 520d.

 

[st4]

A particulate filter is an option. Still 40mpg seems low for such a run at national speed limits.
I wonder if it needs a new MAF.

Tim...????

Maybe your right, someone on the other forum can get 60mpg plus from theirs. I can't get near that but I am well ahead in the pic of the published figures.

 

[Dieselman]

Tim. Any change since the new MAF.?