Slight leak from the headgasket? What colours the water and is there is there signs of leakage from the filler cap?
w211 coolant loss problem
- Thread starter abc_nottingham1
- Start date
Slight leak from the headgasket? What colours the water and is there is there signs of leakage from the filler cap?
Dieselman
Banned
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 34,198
- Car
- Peugeot 403 Convertible
Take it back to HAC and see what they say. I think it could be the head gasket so budget £500-£600.
There is a possibility it could be something like a sticking thermostat causing the water to boil and expand.
Does the temperature go up before the water is pushed out of the system or only after?
abc_nottingham1
New Member
after they 'so called' fixed it .. it was driving fine and the temperature
was in the middle all the time, until i took it on the motorway and overtook
another car at around 95 mph.... straight after this, the the temp went up
all the way .... after maintaining the speed of 60 for aroung 3 miles.. the temp went back towards the middle .. ..
soon after it was indicating 'check coolant'
the day after, i drove the car locally, the temp stayed fine .. and the
heater worked fine .. but the sign ,check coolant' remained through-out the day ...
The car is at HAC services as we speak .. and they will check it tommorow.
i feel, it is only at higher speeds, when it looses water ...
Dieselman
Banned
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 34,198
- Car
- Peugeot 403 Convertible
So either it does have a small leak in the head gasket causing the water to blow out, but the temperature is going up before the water is lost, so maybe not.
If the temp is going up under load it could be as simple as a stuck thermostat creating restriction to high flow. At speed the fan is irrelevant.
Good luck with this.
If the temp is going up under load it could be as simple as a stuck thermostat creating restriction to high flow. At speed the fan is irrelevant.
Good luck with this.
My guess would go with a small leak at high loads coupled with reduced circulation, causing a large airlock/increase in pressure forcing water out.
This may be due to a damaged water pump/collapsed radiator and this may be the root cause of the head gasket.
If an air lock is present then this may not lead immediately to a visible fall in coolant level
This may be due to a damaged water pump/collapsed radiator and this may be the root cause of the head gasket.
If an air lock is present then this may not lead immediately to a visible fall in coolant level
abc_nottingham1
New Member
went to HAC servies to see how they're getting on with my car, beacause they don't seem to ring me, to update how they're getting on.
anyway, they say its a head gasket problem, i told them of all other possiblities, that people on this forum have suggested it could be, but they say they are definately sure it needs a new head gasket.
they say it would cost around 1000 pounds to fix, but they would have to take the head off to see, and give a definate price.
He also said i can get it done cheaper by a local garage called R.B LINDLEY AND SON. They are specialist of head gaskets and engine repairs.
he said they would probably charge around 600 - 700 pounds.
HAC services, did not really seem to want to help, and had a very negative approach towards me and were extremely un-proffesional as one guy working there was wanting to argue with me for no reason .... ??
DieselMan... what do you reckon ??
and all the other helpful people reading this ???
THANKS GUY'S ....
anyway, they say its a head gasket problem, i told them of all other possiblities, that people on this forum have suggested it could be, but they say they are definately sure it needs a new head gasket.
they say it would cost around 1000 pounds to fix, but they would have to take the head off to see, and give a definate price.
He also said i can get it done cheaper by a local garage called R.B LINDLEY AND SON. They are specialist of head gaskets and engine repairs.
he said they would probably charge around 600 - 700 pounds.
HAC services, did not really seem to want to help, and had a very negative approach towards me and were extremely un-proffesional as one guy working there was wanting to argue with me for no reason .... ??
DieselMan... what do you reckon ??
and all the other helpful people reading this ???
THANKS GUY'S ....
Dieselman
Banned
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 34,198
- Car
- Peugeot 403 Convertible
Strange way to operate..sorry to have given you their details in the circumstances..
I think it's quite likely it could be the head gasket but it's not certain. Before committing you could try a new thermostat but no guarentees.
I think it's odd that they would refer you to another garage, but maybe they really are trying to reduce your outlay and can't do that in house.
Why not go to the suggested garage for a second opinnion. Maybe they can test this better or have more experience.
I think it's quite likely it could be the head gasket but it's not certain. Before committing you could try a new thermostat but no guarentees.
I think it's odd that they would refer you to another garage, but maybe they really are trying to reduce your outlay and can't do that in house.
Why not go to the suggested garage for a second opinnion. Maybe they can test this better or have more experience.
abc_nottingham1
New Member
This problem is very strange .....
because, today i drove the car locally for around 65 miles .... continous...
and the the car temp remained absolutely perfect, bang on middle ...
and no sign for coolent ... and the heaters were working perfect ....
its 2.30 am and i've just got home .. been driving since 7 pm ..???
some of my friends are finding it hard to accept that this car needs a head gasket .....
But i will definately go to get a second opinon from elsewhere ...
because, today i drove the car locally for around 65 miles .... continous...
and the the car temp remained absolutely perfect, bang on middle ...
and no sign for coolent ... and the heaters were working perfect ....
its 2.30 am and i've just got home .. been driving since 7 pm ..???
some of my friends are finding it hard to accept that this car needs a head gasket .....
But i will definately go to get a second opinon from elsewhere ...
abc_nottingham1
New Member
It's not your fault, i am very thankful to you - as you have really helped me alot, and i really appreciate this !!!!!!
Dieselman
Banned
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 34,198
- Car
- Peugeot 403 Convertible
Try a new thermostat first as it could be restricting flow.
I would reiterate this. If the head gasket is leaking then it may be a symptom and not a cause. Something may have caused the headgasket to fail and a common cause of this is overheating, so its important to confirm the cooling system is OK before fixing the gasket otherwise whatever caused the old gasket to go will cause the new one to go the same way. Lack of flow is one cause of overheating and a stuck closed thermostat is one cause of that that is easily checked. Other causes can be a collapsed/clogged radiator (feel over the radiator when the car is hot and see if there are any cool spots as a quick check) or the water pump not pumping any more.
panason1c
MB Enthusiast
I suspect abc has indeed ended up having to spend much more than his initial £600 'saving'....................?
Last edited:
abc_nottingham1
New Member
Hi there, havent been on forum for a couple of weeks....
Nothing has changed, my car is still not fixed.
Changed the cap on the water coolant box. (didnt work)
Changed the Water pump (didn't work)
The guy at the garage says the thrmostate is perfectly fine
and in working order, so its no good changing that
because the pipes that are meant to get hot are hot... so on ...
They did a bloack test to check for headgasket....
the red liquid was meant to turn yellow, had the head gasket gone.
But after doing it two times, it stayed red (ish) dark brown (ish)....
they guy at garage put the water pump in today and said check it over
the weekend and if the problem is still there, then come back on monday.
SO I HOPE TO GO BACK ON MONDAY !!!!!
i have really had enough ... i've never experienced such a situation
before ... and have never had to run around so much for a car repair.
THE FAULT SEEMS VERY MYSTERIOUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT D'YA RECKON GUY'S
Nothing has changed, my car is still not fixed.
Changed the cap on the water coolant box. (didnt work)
Changed the Water pump (didn't work)
The guy at the garage says the thrmostate is perfectly fine
and in working order, so its no good changing that
because the pipes that are meant to get hot are hot... so on ...
They did a bloack test to check for headgasket....
the red liquid was meant to turn yellow, had the head gasket gone.
But after doing it two times, it stayed red (ish) dark brown (ish)....
they guy at garage put the water pump in today and said check it over
the weekend and if the problem is still there, then come back on monday.
SO I HOPE TO GO BACK ON MONDAY !!!!!
i have really had enough ... i've never experienced such a situation
before ... and have never had to run around so much for a car repair.
THE FAULT SEEMS VERY MYSTERIOUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT D'YA RECKON GUY'S
abc_nottingham1
New Member
..
Does the radiator get hot all over?
Does it look like a new radiator? Maybe the fault that caused the head gasket to fail has been sorted by the previous owner, but then realised it had caused other problems (head gasket) and so moved it on?
Nick
Does it look like a new radiator? Maybe the fault that caused the head gasket to fail has been sorted by the previous owner, but then realised it had caused other problems (head gasket) and so moved it on?
Nick
prprandall51
MB Enthusiast
In the absence of more informed posters, I would say this:
The good news is that cooling systems are still essentially machanical in design. The bad news is that they are a lot more sophisticated than they used to be.
They don't contain that many parts - pump, radiator, some piping, a fan and some thermo swiches and (often) some ballast resistors. The bottom line is, though, that if any single part fails then it will cause the cooling system to fail. You need to check each part out.
As your problem is quite perplexing - i.e. it doesn't just immediately overheat - I would now start to check each component one by one to ensure it is doing its job correctly. I would certainly check that the thermo switches are each triggering at their pre-determined temperature and that they each trigger an increase in the fan speed. There may well be ballast resistors in the circuit (this is how the multiple fan speeds are usually "created") and one of these may have gone (common problem on BMWs in the 90's).
You will also need to check the rad for blockages and the system for air leaks (previously discussed). But as your problem has a bit of intermitant-ness to it, I am wondering if you have a dogdy thermo switch (there may be two or even three of these) or ballast resistor.
This aspect of the cooling system is well documented on the BMW forums (!) - look for "E39 overheating" - I would be surprised if the E Class cooling system is much different from a BMW one.
The starting point is understanding the logic of the cooling system and then tracing the components and ensuring that logic is applied on your car. Typically, the logic is something like (this is to give you the picture it is NOT correct):
Engine cold: rad fan off.
Turn on a/c: rad fan to first stage (regardless of temp)
Rad temp over 80C fan to first stage (second with a/c switched on).
Rad temp to 95C Fan to full (could be a two or three stage fan)
Rad temp over 105: a/c disabled
Hope this helps.
Philip
The good news is that cooling systems are still essentially machanical in design. The bad news is that they are a lot more sophisticated than they used to be.
They don't contain that many parts - pump, radiator, some piping, a fan and some thermo swiches and (often) some ballast resistors. The bottom line is, though, that if any single part fails then it will cause the cooling system to fail. You need to check each part out.
As your problem is quite perplexing - i.e. it doesn't just immediately overheat - I would now start to check each component one by one to ensure it is doing its job correctly. I would certainly check that the thermo switches are each triggering at their pre-determined temperature and that they each trigger an increase in the fan speed. There may well be ballast resistors in the circuit (this is how the multiple fan speeds are usually "created") and one of these may have gone (common problem on BMWs in the 90's).
You will also need to check the rad for blockages and the system for air leaks (previously discussed). But as your problem has a bit of intermitant-ness to it, I am wondering if you have a dogdy thermo switch (there may be two or even three of these) or ballast resistor.
This aspect of the cooling system is well documented on the BMW forums (!) - look for "E39 overheating" - I would be surprised if the E Class cooling system is much different from a BMW one.
The starting point is understanding the logic of the cooling system and then tracing the components and ensuring that logic is applied on your car. Typically, the logic is something like (this is to give you the picture it is NOT correct):
Engine cold: rad fan off.
Turn on a/c: rad fan to first stage (regardless of temp)
Rad temp over 80C fan to first stage (second with a/c switched on).
Rad temp to 95C Fan to full (could be a two or three stage fan)
Rad temp over 105: a/c disabled
Hope this helps.
Philip
