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W211 E Class SBC Pump

THPH

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
1
Car
E270 cdi
Help!
I am new to the forum and really need some serious help and advice.

A couple of weeks ago, a warning message appeared on my dash "Service Brake Visit Workshop". It was a white consumer message, not a red flashing warning.
Having driven 700 or so miles with this message on due to business demands, I took the car in to my indy for diagnostics, which gave an error code C249F "Electro Hydraulic Brake Total ON time too long"
My indy had not come across this before, so I went to MB local dealer and they ran diagnostics which confirmed the SBC pump had expired, and quoted me £1600 to replace and fit, having turned down a warranty claim due to the age/mileage of the vehicle (it is just over 10 years old 156k - 83 of which I have added in the last 18 months) with only MB service history for the first 6 years, although it has a complete service history to date.

I decided to seek alternative advice on the pump, as it turns out from googling and reading various forums that the pumps are pre programmed to expire after 300k presses of the brake pedal although the pump itself 99 times out of 100 still works.

I discovered that they can be repaired or reset and google took me to a company in London, so having spoken to them about the problem and their promise of being able to repair it with a quoted maximum possible price to have it back on the road, I drove the car down to them - 100 miles and 2.5 hours for me. I left the car with them on the promise that they would get it fixed and back on the road in 5-8 days, which seemed an excessive length of time to me, but they were guaranteeing to do this at a fraction of the cost MB had quoted, and returned the 100 miles home by train.

I had no communication from them for 4 days so chased them up, and was told it was being diagnosed. The following day I had a call to say they had found a fault in the pump and the £395 originally quoted was going to have to increase to £575 due to the labour involved and they wanted me to verbally approve this, which I agreed to do in order to get the car sorted and back on the road asap. No date was given as to when it would be done though.

The following week I called a few times to chase them up, and was told the pump was back on the vehicle on the Tuesday (last week), and that it should be ready Weds/Thurs so I agreed to collect late on the Thursday. I booked a train ticket, and as I boarded the train the owner called me to say dont come at 4pm as agreed as it wont be ready as they havent got anyone to bleed the brakes with the MB diagnostics kit until 6pm, so I delayed my arrival with them until 5.30pm.

I waited in their workshop for almost an hour before someone came to speak to me, in which time they had been messing around with the electrics on an Audi A8. I was then told the guy to bleed the brakes was stuck in traffic and would be here soon. I waited another 45 minutes until gone 7pm, by which time it was baltic in the workshop, and the guy turned up with his laptop. He didnt work for this garage, but told me he does work for them as an indy diagnostics expert. He got to work but soon announced he was not happy, and that the brakes were not bleeding as he was getting no pressure from the pump. On investigating, he said he didnt think the pump was working at all, and it was getting very hot to the point of being completely unsafe. This meant he was unable to allow me to take the car away as it was unsafe with no brakes at all!!!

I spoke to the owners brother who was there at the time, and he said it needed a new pump and they would locate one and come back to me with a requote. This was confirmed on a text message by the owner the next day, Friday of last week.

Yesterday, Monday, I tried to call for an update numerous times. The owners mobile was switched off, and no one answered the workshop phone until the afternoon when I spoke to one of the mechanics who said he would get the owner to call me back. No one called me back. I sent him a number of texts asking him to call me back but no response.

This morning I sent another text giving him until 10am to call me back, no reply. So I called at 10am. His mobile rang out to voicemail, I left a message, and called again but this time the phone was turned off.

I then called the workshop landline and spoke to the owners brother again, who started to get a bit shirty with me. I tried to explain the car had been with them over 2 weeks, it went in for a repair which has now ended up with a worse scenario and a car with no brakes at all, and a vehicle which is used for business not being able to be used and therefore costing me a lot of lost revenue. I asked him to give me a time or date when he would be able to confirm what they were doing inside the next 48 hours or I would have to take the car elsewhere. His response was he doesnt do deadlines, his brother is busy running 3 businesses including a building site where their new workshop is being built, and they have not been able to locate the right part for a replacement pump yet, and could not tell me when they expect to find one.

He told me the problem was the pump over-pressurising, which it wasnt doing until it went into them for whatever repairs they did or were supposed to do. They claim to be able to reset the counter or do a hard reset of the software, but after doing this the pump simply didnt work. As far as I can see, the pump no longer works as a result of the work they have done and therefore how can I be expected to pay for any repairs that have failed to cure the problem? However, the guy I spoke to said they are in possession of my car and they will find a part and let me know - dont know when that will be however!

I tried very hard not to get aggressive on the phone or lose my temper, but made it clear that I wanted a response today/tomorrow latest and if they couldnt find the right part, I wanted to be able to collect the vehicle (this is going to cost me a fortune...) and take it elsewhere, at which stage I know they are suddenly going to produce an amount they want me to pay for what they have done thus far.

I yesterday came across forums of people complaining about this company after doing some research and contacted Trading Standards to seek some advice on where I stand. I am now really concerned about everything going on here, and it has got to the stage where I am worrying so much I am not sleeping.

Can anyone on this forum offer any advice on what I should do from here please?

Thanks in advance.
 
Hi & welcome to the forum,

If it were me id get my car out of there asap, contact Trading Standards, go to court if need be, you have given them plenty of time to sort it. As for worrying i too am like you but look at it this way...no ones died & cars can be fixed "eventually''.
 
[FONT=&quot]I think we will see more of these type stories in the immediate future, if you think about it the Mercedes stance on SBC issues has created an unusual dynamic in that the parts and repair markets were almost nonexistent. Why would you pay someone to fix it when Mercedes were fixing them for free, then a strong change in their stance! 50% contribution if you are lucky and the majority are 0% so the Indie and the parts market suddenly have more cases than they would otherwise so you have a shortage.

Once the market scales to normal then supply will meet the demand.


There is no excuse for poor service but you may find that the only way to get your car on the road quickly is to get a new part ordered.


[/FONT]
 
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Sounds like the garage dont have a Star and so cannot bleed the system. They are most likely relying on someone mobile with a Star so really they themselves arent equipped to do this job.

I get this sort of thing all the time. Companies who claim to clean out DPF's only to leave us with more issues than we started with. Companies who claim to be able to fix ECU's that simply dont have a clue and just leave you out of pocket.

If I were you I would have pushed MB for a little more contribution and had the work done by them.
They have done it a gazillion times before, you would have had your car back in a few days at most.

Best thing now is to go and get your car back and get it to the local dealer. I wouldnt pay them a single penny.
If you have breakdown cover, they may be able to help... just take the car out of the garage, park it around the corner and ring your breakdown cover.

Some things just arent worth penny pinching with, SBC brakes is one that I wouldnt mess with.
 
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Re-setting the counter on the pump sounds like a bodge to me.

The pump may very well be perfectly servicable, but Mercedes put the limits in for a reason.

If they were rebuilding it I could understand (I don't think there is anywhere rebuilding these at present?)

Having the car for that long just shouts cowboys. Get the car back, don't pay them a penny (for breaking it more!)
 
I feel for you!

Assuming they won't release your car without payment, pay with your credit card and use the section 75 benefits of the consumer credit act as your ultimate protection as this gives you the potential to make a claim against the credit card company. They will ask you to exhaust all avenues to resolve directly with the merchant first, but ultimately you will get refunded if the garage have acted improperly.

Direct consequential losses can also be claimed.

Furthermore, once you have the car away from the garage and have paid, if you ring the disputes section of your cc company to lodge the initial complaint, they have to set aside that amount on your account and it will not accrue any payment or interest charges in the interim.

The law is your friend here.
 
His response was he doesnt do deadlines, his brother is busy running 3 businesses including a building site where their new workshop is being built, and they have not been able to locate the right part for a replacement pump yet, and could not tell me when they expect to find one.

He doesn't do a lot from where I'm standing. Of course, you should understand their situation is your fault.

I would also be taking my car away to get it done elsewhere.

I empathise with the situation but in all honesty, I urge you to research this kind of thing in future to avoid getting stung by these sorts of tossers...
 
As an mb tech and sbc trained my advise is take it to dealers and get them to sort it correctly as brakes are your life. We can replace these in around 4-5 hours and it's not just bleeding that has to be done. We had lots of training to work on this system safely so please benefit from it. Then take them to trading standards and sue the **** off them. Wish I could help more.
 
^ Main dealers can be crooks as well. Warning light was coming up with SBC fault. Brakes felt spongy. STAR said I had air in one part of my ABS circuit. Dealer advised me that I needed a new SBC unit. I suggested a bleed first, they said won't work. Took it to an indy, they changed brake fluid and all was good. Saved me best part of £500.
 
If the pump is not functional, I think that equals 'fail safe' mode of the SBC, which means that brakes are not boosted and only front ones are functional - tenth of percent brake force available...

I've not heard that system could be uses as conventional ABS system, though interesting idea :cool:
 
^ Main dealers can be crooks as well. Warning light was coming up with SBC fault. Brakes felt spongy. STAR said I had air in one part of my ABS circuit. Dealer advised me that I needed a new SBC unit. I suggested a bleed first, they said won't work. Took it to an indy, they changed brake fluid and all was good. Saved me best part of £500.

Which main dealer was that?

That's outrageous.

They're supposed to be the most trusted.
 
Hi there

I had the same fault on mine in April last year S211 2004 E 320cdi AG.

My local indie diagnosed that the SBC pump had reached the end of its service life and advised contacting MB main dealers as it should be a warranted part..

Took it to the Cambridge dealer and they said they couldn't say or do anything without putting it on Star..

This is where i thought uh-oh I'm gonna get screwed here..

Well hats off to the guys there..

I got a call back saying,yes it is an expired pump and will be replaced free of charge!!!

I got it booked in a few days later..

However I got a call a couple of hours after leaving it with them saying it wouldn't be ready to pick up till the following day as there had been an upgrade since mine was fitted and they had to get the parts in..

So I picked it up the following day with some new exquisite pipe work and a shiny new pump...

So,for once a big hats of to MB of Cambridge for footing the £1600 bill....
 
SBC unit issue on '03 E270

My '03 (registered 01/01/03), 131k mileage E270 has also just come up with this error...took it to an independent who suspected the SBC. This was latterly confirmed by Merc main dealer in the South West.

Unfortunately they are refusing to replace the unit, or offer any contribution or support at all. The reasons quoted are age (6 weeks over the fabled 10yr warranty), mileage (is 131k really that high for a Merc?) and non-main dealer servicing (not sure how that makes any difference to the SBC unit)...

...so am left with the choice of £1,600 repair on a car worth £4k-£5k (when fixed) or buy a BMW!

Not sure how this situation is influenced by the VOSA recall on the SBC but doesn't seem to be helping!

Any advice/thoughts gratefully received but would be a real shame to scrap such a nice car with lots of extras (Distronic, Sat Nav, etc, etc) for the sake of having exceeded the number of brake actuations! Presumably this is going to become a very common issue now for owners of w211 Mercs...
 
Assuming they won't release your car without payment, pay with your credit card and use the section 75 benefits of the consumer credit act as your ultimate protection as this gives you the potential to make a claim against the credit card company. They will ask you to exhaust all avenues to resolve directly with the merchant first, but ultimately you will get refunded if the garage have acted improperly.

The garage cannot legally hold the car against payment.
 
Iguess the moral of this story is dont use the brakes ? but seriosly thats ridiculous making a part thats programmed to stop working , on another note have i got one of these sbc thingys in my car ? mines a 1999 e320 salloon cdi ?
 
No, your 1999 car does not have this feature.
 

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