W221 steering wheel wobble/shimmer/shake

[willg]

Hi all,

The car has a steering wheel shake/wobble/shimmer at speeds above 50mph. So far:

* I've had the wheels balanced (twice by different places).
* four wheel alignment
* I've had the thrust arm bushings replaced.
* for good measure I've replaced the gearbox and engine mounts.
* brought some used 18" w211 wheels from ebay, which (may also be out of balance admittedly) didn't help.

yet the damn thing still wobbles above 50mph. The flatter the road surface the more noticeable it is. The tyres are relatively new pirelli P Rosso and the alloys look fine with no obvious damage or bending.

I'm stumped and it would appear so are my indy, having had the car four times for the work above and yet still no improvement. I'm sick of being told it's fixed or normal and yet it comes back exactly the same. My E-class doesn't do it, my Porsche doesn't do it. Just the S-class.

The car is a 2010 build, 2011 registered S350 Bluetec with AMG sports package and optional 20" alloy wheels.

What else could it be? I'm fast running out of ideas. What should I do next?

 

[pembssurf]

Hi all,

The car has a steering wheel shake/wobble/shimmer at speeds above 50mph. So far:

* I've had the wheels balanced (twice by different places).
* four wheel alignment
* I've had the thrust arm bushings replaced.
* for good measure I've replaced the gearbox and engine mounts.
* brought some used 18" w211 wheels from ebay, which (may also be out of balance admittedly) didn't help.

yet the damn thing still wobbles above 50mph. The flatter the road surface the more noticeable it is. The tyres are relatively new pirelli P Rosso and the alloys look fine with no obvious damage or bending.

I'm stumped and it would appear so are my indy, having had the car four times for the work above and yet still no improvement. I'm sick of being told it's fixed or normal and yet it comes back exactly the same. My E-class doesn't do it, my Porsche doesn't do it. Just the S-class.

The car is a 2010 build, 2011 registered S350 Bluetec with AMG sports package and optional 20" alloy wheels.

What else could it be? I'm fast running out of ideas. What should I do next?

I don’t know but my C250 CDI 63 plate has exactly same issue as yours. Currently done 2 wheel alignment, alleys checked for buckles, balance done numerous times and il be changing the front tyres again in a few weeks when I am having the steering rack replaced and after that 4 wheel alignmemt done by Merc. If that doesn’t work il be in the same boat as you. Let me know if you find a fix!

 

[Fununcle]

So frustrating, in my experience it's always a tyre. Hope you get it sorted, I feel your pain.

 

[wheels-inmotion]

A problem with deep dish wheels for the likes of MB and BMW is the centre hole is cosmetically central. It's the centre hole most places use to mount the wheel on the balancer, hence the error. The wheels need to be mounted by the stud holes which mimics how they are mounted on the car.

I'm sad to say this type of wheel balance was recognized by the French who on most of their models had solid centre wheels. This forced the tyre shops to use the stud holes. The reason most places don't use the studded plates is they are incredibly expensive and they will need a 3 stud, 4 stud and 5 stud plates.

 

[willg]

Thanks all for the support and helpful suggestions. As I mentioned I have some 18" w221 wheels from ebay that came with some terrible tyres so I could get some proper tyres on then, balanced and try them out. That'll cost about £600 at £150 per corner. I was hoping someone with an s-class might be willing to lend me their known good wheels first before I go down the new tyre route.

Would brake rotors cause a wobble? I don't get any judder under braking so I wasn't sure they could be a factor.

It's a lovely car other than the wobble and slightly harsh idle from the diesel.

 

[willg]

I don’t know but my C250 CDI 63 plate has exactly same issue as yours. Currently done 2 wheel alignment, alleys checked for buckles, balance done numerous times and il be changing the front tyres again in a few weeks when I am having the steering rack replaced and after that 4 wheel alignmemt done by Merc. If that doesn’t work il be in the same boat as you. Let me know if you find a fix!

Thanks and good luck, let me know if your new fronts sort it.

 

[willg]

Anyone used this company before? Looks like they specialise in this type of thing.

On Car Wheel Balancing -balance the wheels on the car!

 

[moonloops]

Anyone used this company before? Looks like they specialise in this type of thing.

On Car Wheel Balancing -balance the wheels on the car!

I do like that they sell a Rover K series engine balancer for £550 when you can buy 5 or 10 K series engines for the same price. Madness

 

[pembssurf]

Thanks and good luck, let me know if your new fronts sort it.

Well it’s in for the work as we speak, should be picking it up this evening complete with 2 front tyres, new rack and 4 wheel alignment. If this doesn’t sort it god knows what il do next!

 

[pembssurf]

Ok so it’s back and feels significantly better. Only got standard 2 wheel alignment but new tyres, rack and freshly balanced seems better. No low speed wobble but still a little around 75mph that irons out at 80mph. I still think I have slight play in a beating or ball joint somewhere that I am going to check independently.

 

[willg]

Great to hear yours is much improved. Unfortunately my car has been at Mercedes-Benz Poole since yesterday morning for them to investigate.

They even tried a brand-new set of wheels and tyres they had and it didn't improve, so that rules out the wheels + tires.

They are stumped too. ​

They are drawing up a list of potential next steps, but they cannot guarantee any of them will fix the problem. The engineer in me thinks rationally this problem can be solved, if only the right measurements can be taken at the time the problem is occurring.

 

[Flyinspanner]

When the wheel is on the balancer, ask them if there are any slight buckles or flat spots on the rims of all 4 wheels, as any tiny run out can induce the wobble, especially so at higher speeds as you are experiencing.
Wheel repairers can usually “dress out” these faults.

(Cue large club hammer)

 

[Flyinspanner]

Try to borrow a set of known ‘good’ wheels and go for a drive, if the fault is still there, then go through all the bushes using a pry/crow bar to see if any appear soft/poor condition.
Prop shaft, rear axle too. (Whoops, just re read post 11, so it’s not the wheels)

It’s a pain, but may be the way to pinpoint the issue.

 

[willg]

I'm still waiting to hear back from Mercedes about their recommended next steps, but in the meantime I've spoken to the Vibration Free people and explained the problem and steps taken so far. They propose putting it on their test bed and running the car up to motorway speed to see if the vibration is at all propshaft / drivetrain related, even though it's manifesting through the steering wheel they'd want to rule that out as a possibility, then go from there.

 

[willg]

I mentioned to Mercedes yesterday that I'd read of the TSB for a very similar sounding issue on various forums. (e.g. Highway steering wheel shudder - MBWorld.org Forums)

The service manager then spoke to the foreman who found the TSB applied to my vehicle and suggested replacing the torque strut bushings with those from the 4Matic as recommended in the TSB. I thought the TSB only applied to vehicles up to the VIN mentioned, but it looks like that's replacement of the steering rack, and all other steps are for all affected vehicles regardless of VIN. So I authorised them to ahead with the work.

Nobody online seems to report this step solved their issue, so I'm not optimistic. I've asked them to keep the original bushings, as they are new and can go back on if this doesn't resolve it.

 

[pembssurf]

Ok so another update. Though the car is much improved especially at low speed the problem is still there. Now I have vibration/shimmy at around 55mph and again at 75mph. So far the work that has been done over the past year is:

New set of rear tyres and balancing
All 4 wheels re-balanced A further 2 times at different locations, the last time both front wheels ended up with weights covering half of the rim.

New steering rack (unrelated leak)

New set of tyres, alignment and rebalancing on front culminating with 5 weights on each of the front rims.

I can only think things left to try iscsemd all 4 wheels off for refurb to check for cracks buckles, ball joints or front bearings. Anyone got any other ideas?

 

[notsofast]

It is very difficult to spot slight dents in the inside flange of the wheel. Even on a balancing machine there is no pointer to take reference from. Jack up the car until the tyre only just clears the ground then spin the wheel by hand. Any out of round will be apparent.
I had both the front wheels on my CLS straightened when I first bought it as they were buckled.

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If you watch the tyre only, the out of round is far less visible as it rotates.

I have just changed out the front wheel on "her" car as it had a vibration at most speeds but most pronounced under braking. The faster and harder the braking, the worse the vibration. Front wheel slightly buckled on the inside rim flange.

 

[willg]

Could you get another set of known good wheels to put on temporarily to try to narrow the problem down?

 

[pembssurf]

Could you get another set of known good wheels to put on temporarily to try to narrow the problem down?

Good idea but I wouldn’t know where to start. I’m the only person knocking around in an internal combustion engines cart in these here parts of South West Wales

 

[DrewGardner]

I had a Mercedes 190E and it was very prone to this, after some investigation it turned out to be flat spots on the tyres (from locked up brakes)

The big clue in your post is that it is more noticeable on smooth road surfaces.

Modern cars which have ABS should be less prone to this but it has happened on my E class estate over the years - when I went to France the super smooth roads highlighted the issue big time!

Have you tried new tyres?

Pricey but a clean sheet start