Warning - Peteborough Car Centre http://www.peterboroughcarcentre.co.uk Review

[Stocho]

Hi

I am looking fo E320CDI Estate about 10Y about for 3k. Flexible on the age but generally regard 2003 - about 3k, 2002 - about 2k, 2004 about 4k.


I spotted what lookd like a great bargain on Autocentre with seller being Peteborough Car Centre (Used Cars Peterborough, Used Car Dealer in Cambridgeshire | Peterborough Car Centre) :
E320CDI Elegance, 2003, 170K miles, 1 Year MOT, 3 month warranty, 1 owner from new JUST GBP2,290! (No history at all but HPI clear) On the telephon the seller who is a sole trader rather then a company confirmed that there is no rust and no problems with the car. The link is (not sure how long it will remain active) Used Cars for sale in Peterborough, Cambridgeshire | Peterborough Car Centre

The display did show a BAS fault which is probably so serious fault that h could not clear it by pressing the "R"-button that normally clears such errors. He claimed that the car has not been driven for a while so it is a battery fault that i causing that error message to appear and that it would disappear onc car is driven - which it did.

I own E300TD and would expect E320CDI to be more powrful. The car felt very, very underpowered to which his answer was - if there was something wrong engine light would be on of which it was not. The arches did not show much rust but did show what lookd like relatively recently applied coarse paint. Also the car was often felt like it was bumped from behind whenver acceleration (weak as it was was applied) - which is at best rear subframe bushes I understand or even something worse. Mine on 1998TD are quite warn out and I do have something similar but on a much much much smaller scale.

When I switched off the ignition it said "4 warnings", I cycled through them and they were:
1. EPC - Elctronic Power Control (I suppose this explains why car felt like 1l rather then 3l)
2. BAS - Brake Assist
3. ABS
4. Washer Fluid (I suppose not important but who knows may be the tank is laking rather than just empty)


The dealer insisted that the problems are minor, that he would change the battery and the rear subframe bushes and reset the warning lights using a computer at a garage.

I stated that with so many faults I felt that I can not go ahead without the car being inspectd by mercedes specilist - at my cost, of cause. To which he repplied that he has no time to waist for such matters.

He also had some well priced S320CDI, and I asked whether that one also has faults or is it worse having a look at it. To which he repplied "all my cars have problems I do not want to deal with you, go to Mercedes dealer around the corner - they will give you a better deal"

I do feel grossly dissapointed and it was quite a long journey that was wasted. I did ask him before coming whether it had any fault and so did another member of my family to which he twice answered no.

I suppose members here with most being more technically competent than me are not likely to be his victims through purchasin the car (naive people probably will) but could waste journeys chasing what looks like some good bargains on his site.....

I searched for "Peterborough Car Centre" on the internet and despite them bein quite large (about 50 cars) and claiming 12 year existence did not find any reviewes - perhaps they were trading under a different name. The name of the owner is not stated on the website but the actual website Used Cars Peterborough, Used Car Dealer in Cambridgeshire | Peterborough Car Centre was reistered by Mr UMARE MALIK - so presumingly this is the sole trader. Whois peterboroughcarcentre.co.uk

 

[m2287]

Aren't they the warnings that come up when you disconnect and reconnect the battery (or have a flat battery and replace it).. Go from full lock one way to the other and they clear!

 

[Spin_bowler]

Old car for sale at 7% of its new price in 'has things wrong with it' shocker!

Mate, if you're fishing in the sub £5K pool for a big MB you're going to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your Prince(ss). He offered to fix the biggies; if it didn't have terminal rot and only had the BAS, ESP, ABS etc warning cycling around (which come on randomly and clear just as easily in most S's and E's of this vintage) I think you may have missed a reasonable old bus there.

 

[Stocho]

Old car for sale at 7% of its new price in 'has things wrong with it' shocker!

Mate, if you're fishing in the sub £5K pool for a big MB you're going to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your Prince(ss). He offered to fix the biggies; if it didn't have terminal rot and only had the BAS, ESP, ABS etc warning cycling around (which come on randomly and clear just as easily in most S's and E's of this vintage) I think you may have missed a reasonable old bus there.

Even if BAS and ABS are not significant and just due to battery, this does still leave EPC - Electronic Power Control.

As I said the car did feel much, much less powerful then my E300TD 1998, and E320CDI is supposed to be in fact more powerful. I had to hire a small lory last week and even that accelerated better tha this car. In my life I driven lots of cars starting from 1litre Fiat, but even that accelerated better. So it is NOT just error messages on screen it is a real problem that was observed during that limited, short, low speed drivetest that the seller allowed.

Also that bump from the rear was huge - much more strong than on my E300TD where they are very warn out. So may be it is something more srious than subframe bushes.

In any case why would he be so negative about an independent inspection? May be it would come up with a reasonable estimate to fix the problems in which case I would buy the car .... but may be the cost to fix would be such that I would be bettter off buying a younger and better car especially if it would uncover problems that I did not spot.

In any case several times during several phonecalls the seller was asked whether the car has any advisories or problems and he kept insisting that it had no problems.

I bought my current E300TD five years ago also based on the same priceline: 3k for 10year, with 1k per year adjust if younger / older than 10y. It was the first car I viewed and did not have any hidden problems.

 

[Bluebell]

Are you using an ipad to post? Leaving aside that I don't quite understand what you expect from a car at this price point from a trader, your spelling makes reading your posts very difficult.

 

[Stocho]

Are you using an ipad to post? Leaving aside that I don't quite understand what you expect from a car at this price point from a trader, your spelling makes reading your posts very difficult.

I would expect that in any contractual relationship products would be described more or less accuratey with no missrepresentation. This is just a basic legal right.

The seller on moe than one occasion described the car as fault free on the phone as well as in person. Despite having been described as problem-free the car clearly had a number of faults including very poor performance. I think this warrants waning others about the seller though this might be the wron plac to do it - probably consumer revew website is a better place for such warnings.

 

[Will]

I think your expectations do not meet your budget.

With old, high mileage, cheap Mercs you tend to get what you pay for. For £2k I would throughly expect it to be rusty, have an incomplete service history, several faults and maybe a few electronic issues too. Maybe displays in the cluster not working, broken air con and a few tired mechanical bits.

If you wanted a perfect example look to spend lots more for a low mileage one that's had plenty spent on it to keep it immaculate.

As Matt said already, £2290 is about 7% of the new price. He's offered to fit a new battery and replace the subframe bushes. I don't see the need for your attempt at 'shaming' the garage - they seem ok to me. Being honest, and going by your post, I expect towards the end of your visit he was getting tired of you - asking to take a 170k miler 10 year old workhorse for a full MB specialist inspection. What would you then do when it uncovered yet more, typical and age/mileage related faults?

I'm sorry if that sounds unkind but you don't seem a very realistic buyer to me

 

[dan1502]

To be fair

On the telephone the seller who is a sole trader rather then a company confirmed that there is no rust and no problems with the car.

That to me would be the annoying bit. This happendened to me so many times when asking comprehensive questions about cars before deciding whether or not to travel. Do they think when you get there you'll just ignore the faults and buy anyway? That said I wasn't looking at particularly cheap cars.

 

[IanA2]

I think your expectations do not meet your budget.

With old, high mileage, cheap Mercs you tend to get what you pay for. For £2k I would throughly expect it to be rusty, have an incomplete service history, several faults and maybe a few electronic issues too. Maybe displays in the cluster not working, broken air con and a few tired mechanical bits.

On the other hand my 13yr old GS430SE Lexus cost about £2K, and has no rust and no issues. Goes like stink.

 

[Will]

To be fair




That to me would be the annoying bit. This happendened to me so many times when asking comprehensive questions about cars before deciding whether or not to travel. Do they think when you get there you'll just ignore the faults and buy anyway? That said I wasn't looking at particularly cheap cars.

Yep - fair point. But - being realistic, all W210s rust - and certainly from the pics at least it looks in far better nick cosmetically than most 170K mile 210 estates.

Fault wise - the BAS/ABS etc lights should reset once it's restarted (battery disconnected/recharged), washer fluid low - shouldn't be a major issue to sort - and wear/tear wise the seller said he'd do a new battery and replace the subframe bushes before sale?

Obviously if there is a genuine power fault with the engine (such as a MAF sensor faulty), they'd need to get that sorted - should have 3 months warranty for any major issues anyway.

I still think that it sounds like the trader was pretty reasonable under the circumstances.

 

[Will]

On the other hand my 13yr old GS430SE Lexus cost about £2K, and has no rust and no issues. Goes like stink.

Got to agree with you there - bought a MK4 LS400 for my father the other month, the only faults I could/can find was a sticking aerial mast and one interior bulb. Drives perfectly, runs like new and bodywork is pristine - £1400 with a year's MOT and six months tax. 32mpg on a run he reckons and has done a couple of thousand miles already - disposable motoring doesn't get much better

 

[Deleted member 65149]

With old, high mileage, cheap Mercs you tend to get what you pay for. For £2k I would throughly expect it to be rusty, have an incomplete service history, several faults and maybe a few electronic issues too. Maybe displays in the cluster not working, broken air con and a few tired mechanical bits.

Not true. That's what I sold my immaculate CLK 230K for (through this club's website) just a year ago. There was no rust, a full service history, no faults of any kind. Everything was working including the air con and all the displays.

 

[Will]

Not true. That's what I sold my immaculate CLK 230K for (through this club's website) just a year ago. There was no rust, a full service history, no faults of any kind. Everything was working including the air con and all the displays.

Yours wasn't a 170k miler W210 diesel estate - and I suspect in better condition than most other examples - an exception to the rule.

Walk around a few car parks - ALL W210s are rusty - well 99% of them

 

[IanA2]

Got to agree with you there - bought a MK4 LS400 for my father the other month, the only faults I could/can find was a sticking aerial mast and one interior bulb. Drives perfectly, runs like new and bodywork is pristine - £1400 with a year's MOT and six months tax. 32mpg on a run he reckons and has done a couple of thousand miles already - disposable motoring doesn't get much better

Yes, the LS's seem to be particularly cheap. If there was one with a decent size engine I'd have one.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Yours wasn't a 170k miler W210 diesel estate - and I suspect in better condition than most other examples - an exception to the rule.

So why talk about how good a completely different make is?

 

[IanA2]

So why talk about how good a completely different make is?

Actually it was me not Will. MB's of a certain age are tin wormed. Fact. Not so with Lexus. Fact.

Now stop being so scratchy and enjoy the nice sunshine

 

[rascalmaster]

if he says there is no rust; i'd be very skeptical.

if you're feeling 'clunkies' and for a car this age; be prepared to spend 500£- 1000£ on rubber bits and a spring or two.

be prepared for a rear diff rebuild at about £400.

and the rust/ paint story? if it needs sorting properly; between 2500 and 3000 quid ;-)

what condition is the self levelling bottles/ lines in (at this age they can corrode and fail).

fuel lines can give trouble too.

so seriously; buy a 210 but unless you KNOW its been sorted (like mine) you should cater £3000 to £4000 if you plan to keep it!

wiring loom loose connections can sometimes explain loads of error messages...

 

[Will]

So why talk about how good a completely different make is?

As has been pointed out, it was a reply to another member's post - nothing to do with your post so I don't see your issue?

Fact is - you were comparing apples with oranges. As a W210 owner who has looked at loads as well, I can honestly say that the very vast majority of these cars have rust - it's what you should expect to find and not be surprised about

 

[Will]

Yes, the LS's seem to be particularly cheap. If there was one with a decent size engine I'd have one.

The later 4.0 is ok for a luxo-barge. They brought in VVT with the facelift - so around 290bhp/300ft lbs, 0-60 6.3 seconds - no slouch really

 

[Stocho]

.... Do they think when you get there you'll just ignore the faults and buy anyway? ...

Well, I do own an E300TD 1998 that I will be the last owner of and that has quite a number of issues (but it does go from A and B and accelerates reasonaly well !!!) so it is more difficult to hide issues from me now than it would have been from me 5 year back when I was a company Mazda MX5 driver! Because my current car has a number of naggng faults I do not even dream of selling it, I will be the last owner - even though they all could be well hidden from unsuspecting buyers and the rusty wing could be fixed inexpensively as I already have the new wing just need to get it painted and a weekend to put it on.

My car does not handle quite well and I know that rear bushed are gone. I know that the symptoms of rear subframe bushes wear are bumps from the back on acceleration and in my car I have to try very hard and move myself into a very sensitive mode to feel it. So I trained myself to actually spot such problems. If not for my experience with my current car I would probably assume it is a spare tyre loose or somthing as trivial as that.

The test drive was very short on low speed roads. I can see easily how othes might have not noticed that the car is underpowed - perhaps assuming that this is th deal when you get a bigger car.

Error messages EPC was completely hidden from me. The only one I saw at th start was BAS that did disappear when I startd driving as the seller told. I knew to pay attention to all error messages at the end and I knew how to to see them - by pressing the "R"-button. I can see easily how someone not familar with Mercedeses could miss it.

Bodywork indeed did not look too bad but I did notice some very course (not standard car paint) nw paint on the arches - so may or may not be in fact in good condition.

But oveall a less experienced buyer, especially a pensioner or a women might not have actually noticed any of these problems .... And than as is the risk with EPC error might have suffered power loss on a motorway or disastourous performance in emerency situation due to rear subframe problems (I am not sure it is just bushes those kicks wee quite strong) that will affect handling on bends, lane changes, etc.

And yes - there are sellers that disclose problems honestly and yes even on cheaper and old cars! With the price of this car I would not be put off by reasonable disclosed problems but even at this price it would be crazy to buy with so many problems that were hidden from me without getting an inspection to establish how expensive the problems I found are to fix and whether there are more.