Water/Meth Injection.

Discussion in 'Performance Lounge' started by John Jones Jr, Aug 14, 2015.

  1. John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Guys,

    I've started to have just a bit more than a passing interest in WMI due to still owning the C230K. I only know one person using the system on their car, power wise it's 2.5 times my own and no expense spared either on all engine components, which is in a totally different league to my bus so to a certain extent the WMI benefits would not be comparable even if the principles are the exactly same. After doing some basic research along with the little bit of knowledge I already had (dangerous) I'm coming to the conclusion it's all positives to installing a system.

    So, has anybody been down this path, got some first hand experience or even knows about the system?

    Cheers in advance.
     
  2. gasman2

    gasman2 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    see my thread in amg lounge wmi really helps
     
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  3. Lee C63

    Lee C63 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Aquamist HFS4 being installed on mine next week.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Cheers gasman. I want the WMI for the exact same reasons as you, just to keep IAT's inline, especially to fend off heat soak build up and of course I'll be more than happy with the extra driveability it may bring and the bonus of some more horses or ponies in my case compared to your own machine.

    Also, the ECU will not be mapped (don't think it could be anyway) to take specific advantage of the WMI system so no worries on WOT if the system for some reason fails.

    Looking positive so far.
     
  5. OP
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    John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Lee, will you have any stats with & without? Are you using the system for max power or primarily just to lower IAT's?

    I've looked at Aquamist. The HFS3-v3 system seems to be the ticket for my car.

    Edit: I'm also looking at Snow Performance too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  6. Lee C63

    Lee C63 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I will be going on the dyno after it is installed for some logging. It will be interesting to see what difference it makes with the water meth on AFR.

    I spoke with Aquamist and they said MB ECU's are intelligent and will detect the increase in Octane and lower Charge temp so will alter fueling automatically.

    The Aquamist may not be the cheapest system about but seems to have all the fail safes and it looks like well engineered kit.

    I am not expecting any increase in power.....However, after installing the Killer Chiller and reducing IAt's considerably i did gain 18BHP :thumb:
     
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  7. Giantvanman

    Giantvanman Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Water/Meth Injection.

    Stick to heroin. My sources tell me it is less addictive. And cheaper.:D
     
  8. gasman2

    gasman2 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    my graph shows with and without the wmi injection
     
  9. OP
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    John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I read your thread this morning, sorry to hear about the issues you're having. Didn't realise, so I suppose not the best time to post up my thread - a touch od salt in the wound so to speak. Hope you get it resolved soon. :thumb:
     
  10. OP
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    John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I think I may opt for the Aqua rather than the Snow for a couple of reasons if I bite the bullet. The Aqua is feed from the injector pulse while the Snow is from the MAF and from what I can tell Aqua (Richard?) is very helpful. I haven't noticed any great difference in price looking at several different manufacturers systems, admittedly I haven't either do all my homework at this stage, thus my thread.

    Don't forget to post up the results, cheers :thumb:
     
  11. gasman2

    gasman2 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    the aquamist has worked perfectly on mine keeping iat on the dyno on a humid day to a max of 50 and even less on the road
    while adding to the overall power
     
  12. OP
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    John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I gathered but assumed your last post was in someway related to your ongoing issue.
     
  13. gasman2

    gasman2 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    no my problem is the extra air the supercharger creates you can only rescale a maf so much then it basically runs out of granularity and the maf converts the airflow to voltage and when it sees an excess of 5v it sends a signal to the ecu to throw a check light..just waiting to see what weistec are planning on doing with the file to get round the check light
     
  14. OP
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    John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Well, believe it or not I have that exact problem after upping the boost pressure (from 6 to 10 psi) and before a remap was carried out. The accepted way on my four pot is to clamp the MAF to 4.6v with Zener diode, which I'll be doing very soon as this has been proven to solve the issue time and time again.

    Obviously, I can't comment on your motor but worth bearing in mind that the original Kleemann M111 Kompressor kit came with a small electronic module that was connected to the MAF voltage output!
     
  15. SquabzZz

    SquabzZz Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Ran water / meth on my old mr2 turbo kept detonation at bay.. car ran like it was winter 24/7 better than any expsenive intercooler I have ever used

    Ran car on the limit for 2 years as a daily driver (13k miles a year) and never had any problems with ring lands or h.g
     
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  16. OP
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    John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Another positive post. That's exactly what I want to hear :thumb:

    I've looked at fitting a bigger I.C. and there's enough space to go +50% but there's a couple of downsides. One, the cost. Getting a quality I.C. made measure is very close to the cost of WMI. Two, I want a cooler charge but don't want to lose any pressure, a bigger cooler could cost me 1-1.5 p.s.i. by my rough calculations. Also, the factory I.C. seems to work well from my very limited knowledge and if it gets damaged good used ones are cheap.

    Cheers for your input.
     
  17. gasman2

    gasman2 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    The aquamist with a water/meth mix will take care of intake temps no need for bigger intercoolers
     
  18. OP
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    John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    ///M Division!

    If it's good enough for ///M Division's GTS, it's certainly good enough for me. :D Anyway, if nothing more it's a nice bit of vindication for WMI/WI systems.

    BMW M4 GTS Concept - official | PistonHeads
     
  19. SquabzZz

    SquabzZz Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Sorry mate just seen this! charge coolers are a good idea but seems a bit of a hassle to change to from a intercooler.. I say buy a mild upgraded intercooler and run water meth or even use stock intercooler with water meth..

    just to add on the positive

    my old mr2 turbo was a rev2 the rev 3's was better but anyways when modified and run with extra boost rev 2's used to suffer h.g failures quick (most owners upgraded to the later version head gasket that was made of metal but then had the risk of ring lands letting go) i upgraded the turbo from rev 3 turned up the boost from 11 psi to 16 psi (14 was the UNSAFE limit zone was better to run 13) i ran the car on 16 psi for 2 years not 1 problem 26k miles :bannana:.. and I used to drive on boost alot

    it goes without saying if i was to ever buy a 45amg or the new turbo charged c63, s63 or an old scooby evo or whatever I would 100% install water meth just make sure you get a decent kit and have all tuning on a dyno
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
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  20. OP
    OP
    John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I think you've partially misunderstood my proposed modifications. I've no intention of replacing the air-air with a air-water charge cooler. As you say, I too don't think it's worth the hassle either for any benefits that could be gained especially if a water/meth system is employed with the standard I.C..

    Now, I could very well be incorrect but I'll happily stay in ignorance as it means more plumbing thus more to go wrong, cost-v-benefits might be marginal as I'm only looking for an honest 230BHP @ the fly and if it turns out that I could do with better intercooling I can always fit a slightly larger (+25%) off the shelf premium I.C. for a modest two hundred quid or less rather than going 50%+ and looking at a custom made job at twice the cost, which as I mentioned earlier would be getting close to the price of a water/meth system.

    I'm so sold on water/meth systems even without having any actual experience that I'd consider trying it on my high compression (11:1) n/a Suzuki engine.

    Thanks for your input, always great to get feedback and especially positive views from people with first hand experiences.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015

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