What’s the best option for the odd track day.

[Theador]

I’m looking for a decent estate that can still be fun on the track with a bit of proper RWD fun on the twisty bits.

On the e55/early e63s and c55, was there a factory option for a Limited Slip Diff and how well do the standard traction options behave on track?

This exercise means me parting company with my manual e46 M3 - which has been my ‘fun car’ alongside the family SUV - and that’s my benchmark. The M3 has an LSD, Mtrack option which gives me controlled rear slides as well as totally off and just rely on the lsd, and has one of the most balanced chassis I have driven, since resetting the geometry to that of a CSL M3.

Any advice on this, or recommendations on upgrades etc. is hugely welcomed.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

If you search out @ricky s posts you’ll see how far he’s had to go to get his E55K “track ready” unlike your M3 which is pretty much out of the box set-up.

Out of those listed, the C-Class would be the best better per £ and if you were really thinking about a track weapon I’d throw the C32 in; a good one could be had for a lot less than the others which would leave plenty in the budget to change suspension, brakes, wheels, tunings etc

 

[MatBat]

I'd second what SPX has said, your M3 is going to be the better track car as it stands however the C32 is a cheap buy, cheap to tune and the lightest of the other options you've mentioned.

Personally I would go for a W202 C36 AMG, glorious handbuilt M104, a faily light car and you would only need to upgrade the suspension and fit a manual gearbox to have a very exciting track machine

 

[Theador]

I'd second what SPX has said, your M3 is going to be the better track car as it stands however the C32 is a cheap buy, cheap to tune and the lightest of the other options you've mentioned.

Personally I would go for a W202 C36 AMG, glorious handbuilt M104, a faily light car and you would only need to upgrade the suspension and fit a manual gearbox to have a very exciting track machine

Thanks, did the 36 have an estate version? Track will be it's third duty. Family circumstances govern that 'my' car needs to become the car we will also use on longer journeys. It's all one massive compromise so I'm trying to clutch on to some level of excitement.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Theador. I am reading your questions elsewhere on this forum regarding a C55. Now I realise you are thinking of using it on the track I would advise you to buy something else.
Apart from never being as track ready as an e46 M3 no amount of money you spend on a LSD/brakes/suspension you will never be happy with the AMG 'speedshift' 5 speed gearbox. By today's standards it is pretty slow and dim witted, it can be set in 'true' manual and the stick knocked to change gears or the buttons on the wheel can be used (better to have the later model C55 that comes with paddles or fit aftermarket) but you will not feel the control you are used to with a manual. There are mods available for the conductor plate and valve body for the 722.6 gearbox to speed up the change which are quite easy to fit, but in my honest opinion MatBat in the post above is steering you in a better direction.
/

 

[MatBat]

Ahh, no I think the estate version of the C-class AMG first appeared with the C43 AMG (auto only). None came with a LSD as far as I know and for track use I'd probably go down the quaife route.

There were a couple of S124 E36 AMG estates which look awesome however they are big bucks now and probably all LHD.

Is an estate a MUST? Extra weight and limits your options.

 

[BTB 500]

Ahh, no I think the estate version of the C-class AMG first appeared with the C43 AMG (auto only).

Pretty sure there was a C32 estate?

Is an estate a MUST? Extra weight and limits your options.

How about one of these?

 

[MatBat]

Pretty sure there was a C32 estate?

Yes but that came after the C43.

That 850R is the thing of beauty!

 

[Theador]

Theador. I am reading your questions elsewhere on this forum regarding a C55. Now I realise you are thinking of using it on the track I would advise you to buy something else.
Apart from never being as track ready as an e46 M3 no amount of money you spend on a LSD/brakes/suspension you will never be happy with the AMG 'speedshift' 5 speed gearbox. By today's standards it is pretty slow and dim witted, it can be set in 'true' manual and the stick knocked to change gears or the buttons on the wheel can be used (better to have the later model C55 that comes with paddles or fit aftermarket) but you will not feel the control you are used to with a manual. There are mods available for the conductor plate and valve body for the 722.6 gearbox to speed up the change which are quite easy to fit, but in my honest opinion MatBat in the post above is steering you in a better direction.
/

This is, unfortunately, confirming my suspicions. As mentioned in another post though, the 'track' will be it's third line of duty. I'm no race car driver but do enjoy a spirited drive and getting on the track to take traction off and enjoy the car. If budget would reach to a C63 I imagine my wishes would be granted.

C32 I thought were rust buckets? Otherwise I'd happily consider one and use the spare change to add a few upgrades.

Ahh, no I think the estate version of the C-class AMG first appeared with the C43 AMG (auto only). None came with a LSD as far as I know and for track use I'd probably go down the quaife route.

There were a couple of S124 E36 AMG estates which look awesome however they are big bucks now and probably all LHD.

Is an estate a MUST? Extra weight and limits your options.

Estate is sadly a must. This needs to become the car we also use for longer journeys. It's tasks, in order of priority will be:

1. Be my car when I need one and the wife is using the other car
2. Be the family car for longer trips
3. Be a fun car for me to take to the odd track or event.

 

[Theador]

Pretty sure there was a C32 estate?



How about one of these?

View attachment 91007

haha. Had an olive green 850R manual estate a few years ago. Tuned it, loved it; but it was front wheel drive so ultimately it had to go. Bought a 335i e91 touring manual with a Quaiffe diff in its place which was awesome too.

 

[MatBat]

Sadly track cars don't make long distance tourers and vice-versa.

IMHO you would be better to go with the car that best fits the daily driver needs and buy a second set of wheels and some sticky tyres and just run the estate as it stands if it's just the odd track day.

Anything else is going to be too much of a compromise on everyday use.

That said, I am currently toying with the idea of fitting a 3UZ-FE (4.3 Lexus V8) into a Lexus Sportcross. IS200..

300+hp √
V8 √
Manual √
LSD √
Estate √

Most of the parts are available off the shelf and the total cost should come in well under £5k

 

[Theador]

haha. Had an olive green 850R manual estate a few years ago. Tuned it, loved it; but it was front wheel drive so ultimately it had to go. Bought a 335i e91 touring manual with a Quaiffe diff in its place which was awesome too.

Sadly track cars don't make long distance tourers and vice-versa.

IMHO you would be better to go with the car that best fits the daily driver needs and buy a second set of wheels and some sticky tyres and just run the estate as it stands if it's just the odd track day.

Anything else is going to be too much of a compromise on everyday use.

That said, I am currently toying with the idea of fitting a 3UZ-FE (4.3 Lexus V8) into a Lexus Sportcross. IS200..

300+hp √
V8 √
Manual √
LSD √
Estate √

Most of the parts are available off the shelf and the total cost should come in well under £5k

Hahha. You’ve hit the nail on the head lol. Basically I should flip the two words around this is less a track car and more a car to take on a track.

 

[st13phil]

If the objective is for a family wagon to occasionally take on the track then - as you clearly appreciate - track performance will be compromised. So, an off-the-wall suggestion: A mapped S212 E63 Biturbo.

There's some highly amusing footage on this forum somewhere of @Peter DLM destroying a few GTR's and other quick stuff on the track with his car. It's a bit like watching footage of Ford Galaxies racing Mini's in the 1960's, but 50 years on. He only had to back off when he set the brakes on fire

 

[Flyinspanner]

How about?

Subaru Legacy (third generation) - Wikipedia


Nissan Stagea - Wikipedia


I had a Legacy GTB twin turbo for 6 years, reliable and fun, and very surefooted 4WD, some later models the drive could be adjusted to more at rear.

The Stagea with the Skyline engine is quick, and tuneable.

The Volvo T5s are robust but not as quick.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I know this is a Mercedes forum but the obvious one for me is a 335 estate if you’re preferring something that bit newer or a C63.

 

[Theador]

How about?

Subaru Legacy (third generation) - Wikipedia


Nissan Stagea - Wikipedia


I had a Legacy GTB twin turbo for 6 years, reliable and fun, and very surefooted 4WD, some later models the drive could be adjusted to more at rear.

The Stagea with the Skyline engine is quick, and tuneable.

The Volvo T5s are robust but not as quick.

Looked into Legacy, interested to hear they can be made rear Wheel bias. I have a Forester sg9 XT at the moment which is great fun; but I do miss European build quality.

Had a T5 and an 850R. Tuned them both and loved them; got the 850R handling well too but ultimately missed RWD

This time round I want to stay with something European.

If the objective is for a family wagon to occasionally take on the track then - as you clearly appreciate - track performance will be compromised. So, an off-the-wall suggestion: A mapped S212 E63 Biturbo.

There's some highly amusing footage on this forum somewhere of @Peter DLM destroying a few GTR's and other quick stuff on the track with his car. It's a bit like watching footage of Ford Galaxies racing Mini's in the 1960's, but 50 years on. He only had to back off when he set the brakes on fire

That, sir, is a good shout. Although I’m wondering if it’s going to be a case of Budget creep. I’m trying to go no higher than £12k this time around.

Funnily enough I was following an e55 Estate this afternoon and thinking how well they have aged.

 

[Theador]

I know this is a Mercedes forum but the obvious one for me is a 335 estate if you’re preferring something that bit newer or a C63.

I’ve already owned a 335i touring, manual and had a Quaiffe dif. Awesome car but prefer not to cover old tracks . C63 would be great If I can stretch to it.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

With the track thing in mind - and the more I’ve thought about it - your best option would be a C63 for the budget, if you’re intent on an AMG.

Another option is the RS4 or newer S4 but they’re obviously not RWD and not particularly “involving”.

 

[Theador]

With the track thing in mind - and the more I’ve thought about it - your best option would be a C63 for the budget, if you’re intent on an AMG.

Another option is the RS4 or newer S4 but they’re obviously not RWD and not particularly “involving”.

Ye I think you’re right. Some of them are ‘just’ starting to creep into budget(ish).

Although I did see this: Super Rare Mercedes E55 AMG, Every Factory Option,Msl Stage 2 Running 568bhp With Dyno, | in Bedford, Bedfordshire | Gumtree

 

[John]

My immediate thought was C63 but might be too much on the budget. The power is about right at around 450BHP though.

I think anything E might be a bit too heavy for a track car personally.

I once had an E36 M3 Evo and out the box, the E55K is nothing like in the same league so you would have to do a fair whack to it. It does handle well for what it is, but being 1845kg you will get through some consumables!

I would personally buy a Caterham for the track and another car that meets the other requirements.

This might not work for you though given your budget and there are storage considerations of course.

If it had to be a single car, I'd stretch the budget with a loan and get this as at least you know it will be sorted and a minter coming from Jay:

https://www.mercland.com/car.html?id=5351